AMI Auction: Dennie Martinez "Rookie"

[kingjammy24]

Re: AMI Auction: Dennie Martinez "Rookie"

bill,

there are a few possibilities here.

one possibility is that orioles received a blank spare in 1976 and didn't use it until 1977 when they had it numbered and lettered. in this case, the jersey would be labeled as a 1976 and martinez's name and 1977 number 30 would all be original, unaltered with no ghost stitching. i've seen clubs order spares and not use them until the following year.

the second possibility is, according to ami, that the jersey was carried over from 1976 to 1977. this implies that the jersey was first worn by either holtzman or pagan in 1976 and then given to martinez in 1977. i believe the lack of a nameplate may indicate that, during 1976/77, the orioles weren't fond of re-using jerseys as the lack of a nameplate makes it substantially more difficult to remove nobs. if re-using jerseys was their common practice, then you'd think they'd order jerseys with nameplates.

for the purposes of this discussion, let's assume the orioles re-used jerseys during those years. if the jersey was carried over from holtzman or pagan to martinez, then you'd have to see evidence of a name change. it would be very unlikely to strip off a directly sewn name like holtzman and then affix d.martinez and not be able to see evidence of the prior name. you said that the original seller indicated it was all original and unaltered. if that's the case, then how was the jersey carried over from holtzman/pagan? secondly, the ami description makes no mention of evidence of a name change.

if everything is original and unaltered, then a carryover seems impossible. i think a far more likely explanation is that the jersey was a 1976 blank spare that was lettered and numbered in 1977 when martinez joined the team. that would explain the tag, the number 30, and the fact that everything is original and unaltered.

p.s. i don't think it's realistic to expect kieta to have done this legwork. her "vast hollywood connections" probably keep her overwhelmingly busy.
you don't get an impressive imdb profile like this http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0452662/ by sitting around researching 1976 orioles jerseys.


rudy.

[ironmanfan]

Re: AMI Auction: Dennie Martinez "Rookie"

Eric, while as much as much as I would love Mr. Rast to answer the phone at AMI, their silence to me almost 96 hours ago SPEAKS VOLUMES!

I love that my KNOWLEDGE (I'm not on AMI's payroll) has changed their auction description. I haven't received a dime nor a thank you!

Dave O'Brien (Collect GU) where are you??? ..............I'd love to hear from Ron F. as well Obviously, I've given up on Rocco or Mr. Rast...

The facts are on my side, please tell me what you know....

Bill
whhp72@yahoo.com

[sportscentury]

Re: AMI Auction: Dennie Martinez "Rookie"

Bill

You have gone above and beyond here. But don't you just want to know what they had to say about it?

Maybe "James A. Rast" will answer the phone.
Eric

Eric,

Bill doesn't need to waste his time. I can tell you what they'd say (based on many, many personal experiences with them). It will start out with "Hey, Buddy, great to hear from you!" Everyone is AMI's "Buddy." Then, after the question is posed, one of two canned responses will follow: (a) "We'll need to get back to you about that, Buddy." or (b) "Lou's not in right now, Buddy, but we can relay a message for you."

To quote Howard: "When will the madness end?"

Reid

[Eric]

Re: AMI Auction: Dennie Martinez "Rookie"

Bill

You have gone above and beyond here. But don't you just want to know what they had to say about it?

Maybe "James A. Rast" will answer the phone.
Eric

[sportscentury]

Re: AMI Auction: Dennie Martinez "Rookie"

Folks, I don't even know where to begin with this. What a mess. This is beyond embarrassing - it is shameful.

Bill, you left out a couple of major AMI apologists/defenders: Rocco and Dave/CollectGU. Perhaps one or both of them can chime in here to explain this all away. It would take a brilliant magician, though. Ron F.'s recent depiction of the AMI gang blew my mind.

Reid

[ironmanfan]

Re: AMI Auction: Dennie Martinez "Rookie"

Eric, I gave them adequate time to repond since the 22nd......The pros at AMI only changed their direction after I responded with FACTUAL information this morning on this forum (same FACTUAL information I provided to them the 22nd). I am awaiting their FIRST response to me. I want to hear what they ACTUALLY know about his jersey.

Bill
whhp72@yahoo.com

[hblakewolf]

Re: AMI Auction: Dennie Martinez "Rookie"

Bill-
Quite possibly a copy of your email will be attached to the original Lampson LOA-who knows!

Send your question to the folks at AMI. I too am curious as to the research conducted to conclude this was worn in 1977. I would not suggest sending it to Kieta, as a previous post indicated she is extremely involved with making huge Hollyoowd blockbuster films.


Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

I'm curious as to what proof this jersey was worn in 1977 (particularly since Denny wore # 61 in 1976)? Why wouldn't Denny's # 30 tops be labled as 1977 in 1977???????????? What legwork does AMI show do indicate this?

Bill
whhp72@yahoo.com

[Eric]

Re: AMI Auction: Dennie Martinez "Rookie"

Give 'em a call. See what they say. Can't hurt.
Eric

[ironmanfan]

Re: AMI Auction: Dennie Martinez "Rookie"

I'm curious as to what proof this jersey was worn in 1977 (particularly since Denny wore # 61 in 1976)? Why wouldn't Denny's # 30 tops be labled as 1977 in 1977???????????? What legwork does AMI show do indicate this?

Bill
whhp72@yahoo.com

[ironmanfan]

Re: AMI Auction: Dennie Martinez "Rookie"

It's hard to believe that I HAVE to do their HOMEWORK for them and that if they only would have changed their listing after contacting them FOUR days ago with the information prior to posting on this forum, no one would have been the wiser, it could have been fixed....Oh well...... To quote Kieta & Vic, "IT DOESN'T GET BETTER THAN THIS........."

Bill
whhp72@yahoo.com

[hblakewolf]

Re: AMI Auction: Dennie Martinez "Rookie"

Ironmanfan-
People have noted that the "Major Auction Houses" don't waste their time reading this Forum, and don't reply to posts seeking specific info. about an itme in an auction.

Strange how quickly the description was changed on this jersey after your post.

Remember.......only collectors read this Forum-not the auction houses....think again!

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[ironmanfan]

Re: AMI Auction: Dennie Martinez "Rookie"

Wow (ALMOST MAGICALLY) this auction NOW reads as NOW been worn in 1977 labeled as "ROOKIE ERA" ...does anyone hear 1978 or 1979?

I guess this means that my chances to be in Vic & Kieta's new video have been eliminated????

Of course, I am still waiting for a courtesy of a reply.......

[ironmanfan]

Re: AMI Auction: Dennie Martinez "Rookie"

My reference on the day that Dennis was recalled from Rochester was from the 1977 Baltimore Orioles Media Guide.

[trsent]

Re: AMI Auction: Dennie Martinez "Rookie"

Joel, I guess the biggest part that blows me away that in the time it took them to fabricate the story of Dennis Martinez making his debut in May of 1976 and that Tippy Martinez was on the Opening Day roster that year, they (god forbid) could have spent 5 minutes to discover the facts.

I'm awaiting a response from either AMI or their apologists (including Ron F., James Rast, et al) for some sort of an intellectual response. Of course, the facts are on my side so I'm interested on what kind of a reply I would receive.

Odd, the description reads:

"D. MARTINEZ" is sewn directly to the jersey in plain block font. The reason "D." was added was because the team also rostered Tippy Martinez in '76. Dennis Martinez made his first appearance in May while Tippy was on the roster on Opening Day. Inner tail tagging includes a Rawlings "The Mark of a Pro" tag with two suspended flag tags: "1976" and Set 1."

Your assessments are correct, since Dennis made his debut according to Baseball Reference September 14, 1976 vs. DET 5.7 IP, 4 H, 5 SO, 1 BB 0 ER, W, while Tippy was traded to the O's June 15th, 1976 from the Yankees. It does not list the date Dennis was called up and placed on the O's rooster.

I can only assume AMI will make the changes to this lot (or pull it) once things settle down from the auction that ended last week.

[ironmanfan]

Re: AMI Auction: Dennie Martinez "Rookie"

Joel, I guess the biggest part that blows me away that in the time it took them to fabricate the story of Dennis Martinez making his debut in May of 1976 and that Tippy Martinez was on the Opening Day roster that year, they (god forbid) could have spent 5 minutes to discover the facts.

I'm awaiting a response from either AMI or their apologists (including Ron F., James Rast, et al) for some sort of an intellectual response. Of course, the facts are on my side so I'm interested on what kind of a reply I would receive.