2003 Clinton Portis Bronco's Helmet

[aeneas01]

Re: 2003 Clinton Portis Bronco's Helmet

The seller ended the auction for the Portis helmet

i wonder if it was sold via a buyer using the "ask the seller a question" feature to make an offer, an offer the seller accepted - happens all of the time on ebay as we all know. btw eric, i would be very interested in reading more about your experience with the tomlinson uniform, i mean that's just mind-boggling to me! he actually admitted to soiling the uni so it would appear game used? if you would like to share more info i can be reached at livie@horizoncable.com.

You are cutting this really fine at this point...If you get a helmet from the player or team after the last game of the season, or you know when it was switched out during the season (both are admittedly tough) and it has not gotten into the equipment guy's hands you can photo match, as I did with the Jerricho Cotchery that was hotly debated in another thread.. In terms of older helmets it is much easier because the teams did not treat them like their favorite sports car, i.e, weekly cleaning/polishing. It's tough to fine high resoluton close up pictures of the older helmets, but there are other ways..I had an Eric dickerson colts helmet years ago. I brought it to ED and the first thing he did was feel for the dymo name sticker, which was underneath the blue stripe on the lower back of the the helmet..."Yes, this was mine" , he said...It had an aqua and orange paint transfer on one side and a very long darker orange paint transfer down the other side. Eric pointed to the long orange paint transfer and said - "Against cleveland - monday night: TD"..He saw the aqua/orange and said - "The next week, against Miami"..BTW, for all the negative press he got when he played, he is real gentleman...Anyway, disagree if like, and maybe you know more than I do about helmets, but my main point is that unless you can positively ID a star caliber piece in one of the ways I have described, caveat emptor!!

actually, i don't think i was putting too fine a point on it all - trying to photo match a "game used" lid is like trying to find a needle in a haystack imho. for example, how many of the dozens of "game used" helmets currently available to the public at this very momement, offered by private dealer websites and internet auction houses, do you think could be conclusively photo matched? or how many of the many, many game used helmets currently photo-archived at american memorabilia and heritage do you think could be conclusively photo matched?

don't get me wrong, there's a mountain of information a photo can confirm or contradict when it comes to trying to determine a helmet's authentcity - but finding an exact photo match of a particular player's helmet which proves conclusively that the lid you have your eye on at an auction is the real deal, well that's pretty remote.

as far as the cotchery helmet is concerned, i think photo matching was valuable in that it showed a) he did wear a riddell chinstrap and b) he did wear more than one type of facemask that year - two points which the original poster had questioned. i also think the photos proved the helmet for sale was completely consistent with what cotchery wore that year. but that's a far cry from saying that the photos conclusively prove the helmet for sale was game used by cotchery - especially given the seller's past.

but there's certainly one thing we can agree on - and that's mr. dickerson. i'm a huge rams' fan and, needless to say, he's one of my alltime favorites. watching dickerson play in person was a sight to behold - television didn't come close to capturing the marvel of the experience. his height, his size, his speed - bursting through the line in an almost perfectly upright posture. man, the guy was some kind of talent. and, as you mentioned, he is a gentleman. the media had a field day jumping on dickerson towards the end of his career - i still remember him on the cover of sport illustrated after he joined the colts that read "eric the ingrate" in big bold letters. the rams treated him badly, his agent didn't do him any favors as far as his image was concerned and dickerson was never good at treating the press with the ridiculous respect they think they deserve - as such, he took a lot of heat in the media.

[gridman80]

Re: 2003 Clinton Portis Bronco's Helmet

You are cutting this really fine at this point...If you get a helmet from the player or team after the last game of the season, or you know when it was switched out during the season (both are admittedly tough) and it has not gotten into the equipment guy's hands you can photo match, as I did with the Jerricho Cotchery that was hotly debated in another thread.. In terms of older helmets it is much easier because the teams did not treat them like their favorite sports car, i.e, weekly cleaning/polishing. It's tough to fine high resoluton close up pictures of the older helmets, but there are other ways..I had an Eric dickerson colts helmet years ago. I brought it to ED and the first thing he did was feel for the dymo name sticker, which was underneath the blue stripe on the lower back of the the helmet..."Yes, this was mine" , he said...It had an aqua and orange paint transfer on one side and a very long darker orange paint transfer down the other side. Eric pointed to the long orange paint transfer and said - "Against cleveland - monday night: TD"..He saw the aqua/orange and said - "The next week, against Miami"..BTW, for all the negative press he got when he played, he is real gentleman...Anyway, disagree if like, and maybe you know more than I do about helmets, but my main point is that unless you can positively ID a star caliber piece in one of the ways I have described, caveat emptor!!

[Eric]

Re: 2003 Clinton Portis Bronco's Helmet

The seller ended the auction for the Portis helmet

[aeneas01]

Re: 2003 Clinton Portis Bronco's Helmet

The one and only way to truly feel comfortable about a helmet is to photo match. I would not touch any star caliber helmet without it....Try to collect gamers with obvious signs of wear like gouges etc, that you can photo match. There were many Marino gamers on the market years ago...I had one that was identical to the real thing, even down to the unique identifiers on the inside that the equipment guys add...they are not always honest.....I finally found one from 1992, and was able to match it to the Jets game video, down to the bumps in the logo decals and the aqua paint bubbles on the cervical pad, as this was the one and only year the dolphins painted them...it also had the dennis byrd sticker....I ultimately traded it to Pat Catello, who was thrilled to have it....and he once worked for the team and is very tight with marino...which shows you just how tough it is to find real gamers

i'm not sure i quite agree...

"photo matching" can be helpful when trying to confirm basic/obvious points about a helmet used by a certain player or certain team - for example, did drew pearson ever wear anything but a suspension helmet (no) or did the bolt decals the charger's used on their throwback helmets have a transparent border/edge overrun (no). but, beyond that, photo matching has very limited value imo.

for example, trying to photo match gouges, nicks, paint transfers, decal peels, etc. from a game photo to a helmet that is up for auction is akin to looking for a needle in a haystack. as a matter of fact, discovering an exact "photo match" would make me more nervous than it would confident given that a game photo gives a forger something to shoot for - something that he can point to and say "...see, my helmets is exactly the same - look at the blue paint transfer".

helmets just go through so much change from hit to hit, from game to game, from month to month and from year to year - decals are replaced, paint is touched up, scuffs are buffed out, polish is applied, parts are replaced, et.c, etc... i mean a photo of tomlinson's helmet taken in the first quarter of a game could look very different than a photo taken in the third quarter of the same game.

[gridman80]

Re: 2003 Clinton Portis Bronco's Helmet

The one and only way to truly feel comfortable about a helmet is to photo match. I would not touch any star caliber helmet without it....Try to collect gamers with obvious signs of wear like gouges etc, that you can photo match. There were many Marino gamers on the market years ago...I had one that was identical to the real thing, even down to the unique identifiers on the inside that the equipment guys add...they are not always honest.....I finally found one from 1992, and was able to match it to the Jets game video, down to the bumps in the logo decals and the aqua paint bubbles on the cervical pad, as this was the one and only year the dolphins painted them...it also had the dennis byrd sticker....I ultimately traded it to Pat Catello, who was thrilled to have it....and he once worked for the team and is very tight with marino...which shows you just how tough it is to find real gamers

[aeneas01]

Re: 2003 Clinton Portis Bronco's Helmet

aeneas,

here's a little bit about steve misturini / authsports
incidentally, he's been banned by steiner from purchasing any items.

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=8529

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=5879

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=3920

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=199

rudy.

well that's about as bleak as it comes - especially the "game worn" tomlinson sitch. if i would have known any of this i wouldn't have wasted my time contacting this guy. for the forum's entertainment, here's the email exchange i've had with him so far...

me: your ad states that the helmet includes the original chinstrap - but portis wore a chinstrap with blue riddell lettering screened on the left side.

authsprts: He wore many chinstraps. They are changed after every game. Some with the Blue Riddell logo some without. This particular one that came attached to the helmet is blank. Thank You for yor inquiry. AUTHENTICSPORTS

me: regarding your comment: "He wore many chinstraps. They are changed after every game." - neither of these statements are remotely true - portis didn't wear many chinstraps nor do equipment managers or players change chinstraps after every game. further, portis never wore a "blank" chinstrap when he played for the broncos.

authsprts: We have seen Broncos helmets with logos on both sides, one side and none at all. This is not unusual. See attached (photos of broncos players with "blank" chinstraps" and a photo of portis). Thank You for your inquiry. AUTHENTICSPORTS

me: i agree - the broncos, as well as all other teams, use a wide variety of different chinstraps and there is nothing unusual about it. but that has nothing to do with the topic at hand, portis's helmet. in portis's case he wore only a softcup riddell chinstrap with blue lettering screened on the left when he played for the broncos. as a matter of fact, this lettering is visible in the portis photo you attached if you zoom in on the area.

fwiw, i almost fell out of my chair with laughter when i read his claim that players change chinstraps after every game and that portis wore many different chinstraps!

As far as the Cowboys helmets goes you can tell just how abundant there availability is because GUE sells the standard helmets for around $550 anf the throwbacks for $650...Look at how much the Redskins are going for...All over $1000...Good thing for me as I collect Cowboys stuff.

speaking of dallas game-used helmets, i was disappointed to come across the following listing by ebayer "dalcowbill" who has always struck me as a very honest dealer and who, imo, always seems to list only authentic items. however, there definitely appears to be a problem with his "drew pearson game used / worn helmet".

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160123816381&ssPageName=MERC_VI_RCRX_Pr12_PcY_BIN_Stores_IT&refitem=160137555934&itemcount=12&refwidgetloc=active_view_item&usedrule1=CrossSell_LogicX&refwidgettype=cross_promot_widget

as far as i know (and as the many available photos seem to support), drew pearson only wore a riddell suspension helmet throughout his career - even during the very last game he played, a 12/83 playoff loss to the rams (pictured below - notice the rivets). could it be that he wore the more modern lid dalcowbill has listed and then changed back to the older suspension helmet? i guess anything is possible but i find this extremely unlikely. also, imo, the dyno tape with pearson's doesn't match the age of the listed helmet. i've emailed dalcowbill and will let you know what he says.

[kingjammy24]

Re: 2003 Clinton Portis Bronco's Helmet

aeneas,

here's a little bit about steve misturini / authsports
incidentally, he's been banned by steiner from purchasing any items.

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=8529

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=5879

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=3920

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=199

rudy.

[aeneas01]

Re: Good Call on the Chin Strap

"Like you mentioned the non red Riddell straps are very hard to come by...Riddell requires a 38 count minimum order..."

yeah, as i've mentioned before the custom colored letters on riddell chinstraps are special order and require a minimum. interestingly, there was a time when both the front bumper logo and the rear bumper (nape) logo were available in different screened colors as a custom job as well - but that was a long time ago and now decals, which are much more practical, are used.

"I actually thought the non branded chinstrap was an unusual feature..."

it's not uncommon to see chinstraps without any trademarks or logos, i.e., just plain chinstraps - as a matter of fact, they are readily available to the public. nor is it uncommon for equipment managers to "white-out" trademarks and logos that appear on chinstraps - but when this is done you can usually see the "ghosting" of the whited-out markings.

"As I look closely at the pictures I can faintly make out the Riddell logo....And as the photos you provided certainly back that up...."

there's no doubt that portis's chinstrap had custom navy blue riddell lettering when he played with the broncos - i'm also convinced that this is the only type of chinstrap he wore (softcup riddell with blue lettering) when he was in denver. i've never seen a conclusive photo that contradicts this.

"Actually the side clips are what ot me....I do not see a lot of those used in reproductions..."

the "side clips" you mention are nothing special and are readily available to the public - they are just riddell "stabilizer ll cliips". it appears that portis uses the "stabilizer ag" type which are the thicker version.

"Jim yackel actually mentions how difficult real NFL helmets are to obtain (outside of the Cowboys) and his limited inventory is proof of this...."

and, of course, jim is absolutely right - real game helmets are very rare whether they are "game issued" or "game used/worn" - especially real game helmets that belonged to stars. but a newbie to helmet collecting would be hard-pressed to realize this given the amount of claims that are out there!

take the portis helmet for example - he only played two years in denver. given this, just how many game-used portis helmets can we expect there to be in existence? two, maybe three? and how many of these limited lids are we expected to believe made it to market?

"He knows of many markers that are used to authenticate such items but for obvious reasons keeps this information to himself..."

god bless him for this! as i mentioned in another thread, i'm also aware of several unique things equipment managers do to helmets (especially rams helmets) that makes spotting some fakes pretty easy. but, again, as i mentioned in the other thread i wouldn't want to post these things publicly because it would just crooks something else to work on!

btw i emailed the seller of the portis helmet and challenged him on the chinstrap - especially given that he made it a point to claim that the chinstrap was original in his ad. his first reply was pretty goofy/weak, something i'm sure he hoped i would take at face value and move on. but i challenged him again and his second reply was a little more serious. i've emailed him once more so we'll see what he says - he does seem to be a nice guy and not a defensive dealer...

[jayt1234]

Good Call on the Chin Strap

Like you mentioned the non red Riddell straps are very hard to come by...Riddell requires a 38 count minimum order...I actually thought the non branded chinstrap was an unusual feature...As I look closely at the pictures I can faintly make out the Riddell logo....And as the photos you provided certainly back that up....Actually the side clips are what ot me....I do not see a lot of those used in reproductions...Jim yackel actually mentions how difficult real NFL helmets are to obtain (outside of the Cowboys) and his limited inventory is proof of this....He knows of many markers that are used to authenticate such items but for obvious reasons keeps this information to himself...As far as the Cowboys helmets goes you can tell just how abundant there availability is because GUE sells the standard helmets for around $550 anf the throwbacks for $650...Look at how much the Redskins are going for...All over $1000...Good thing for me as I collect Cowboys stuff.

Jay

[aeneas01]

Re: 2003 Clinton Portis Bronco's Helmet

as i've mentioned in the past, i don't collect "game used" or "game issued" modern helmets for various reasons; but one of the main reasons is because they are just far too easy to fake. portis's helmet is a perfect example of an easily replicated modern lid - there's just really nothing about it which would make it at all difficult for a forger to nail.

except for the chinstrap.

obtaining a custom non-red lettered riddell chinstrap is a pain for forgers and, as such, is often just not included with the helmet when it comes to fakes (see lambeauleeper's fakes). trying to reproduce the custom colored lettering is even a greater pain and rarely attempted (although i have seen some clumsy attempts).

anyway, you will notice that the "portis helmet" the seller has listed is not fitted with clinton's custom blue-lettered riddell chinstrap. further, i find it interesting that of the 4 game photos the seller included in his ad, not one was from an angle that would show that the chinstrap is not accurate.

does this make the listed helmet a fake? not necessarily i suppose. but given this info plus the fact that he has been known to have purchased bronco helmet decals in the past (as eric pointed out), well let's just say that i'm not as confident as lou lampson that this lid is the real deal.

2004 pro bowl


12/03 game:


11/03 game:


10/02 game:

[Eric]

Re: 2003 Clinton Portis Bronco's Helmet

Not saying the Portis helmet is real or fake, but something to consider

The seller authsprts who is also buyer gingerine98 bought Broncos decals for $13 in March

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260095229081

DENVER BRONCOS AUTHENTIC FOOTBALL HELMET DECALS

Item number: 260095229081
Sold for:US $13.00
Auction ended early with Buy It Now.
Ended:Mar-10-07 22:33:42 PST
Shipping costs:US $5.00
US Postal Service Priority Mail®
Service to United States
Ships to:Worldwide
Item location:Missouri, United States
History:1 bid
Buyer:gingerine98( 78)
Here's the thread that discussed some of the things gingerine98 had been purchasing

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=5879&page=3&highlight=gingerine98

[jayt1234]

Correct Rear Chin Strap Length Photo




Jay

[jayt1234]

What do you guys think?... Looks good to me....The correct dated clips and those cross support reinforced side clips are a good match...I really don't see those side clips on many attempts at "game issued" helmets, but are on a number of real helmets (Both of my Cowboy helmets have them)...Not sure if they are hard to find...The blank chin straps are also seen in the photos...However from what I have read here, the Lou Lampson authenticity really seems to actually hurt the item...Anyway I am not in the market for a Bronco's helmet, but seems like someone could get a real hard to find item.

Jay

http://cgi.ebay.com/Clinton-Portis-BRONCOS-GAME-USED-WORN-HELMET_W0QQitemZ130133665081QQihZ003QQcategoryZ86828QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem