GUU and the Collecting Community

[Birdbats]

Re: GUU and the Collecting Community

I had the chance to meet Chris in person at the National on Saturday, and we talked at length about this subject. It's obvious to me that Chris has thought long and hard about the best way to approach a sale section.

I tried to put myself in his shoes, thinking whether I'd want anybody to be able to sell items on my Web site. Knowing all the shady characters we've encountered in this hobby and remembering all the nasty transactions we've had on eBay and via other avenues, I simply can't imagine opening my site to the masses. It's about more than liability -- it's about reputation, and in the end, that's what defines us. If somebody used my site to sell fake items, that would reflect on the Birdbats name whether I had anything to do with the sale or not. I know I wouldn't be comfortable with that, which is why I can appreciate Chris' dilemma.

His solution is fair and thought out well... and I look forward to participating. Thanks, Chris.

[ChrisCavalier]

Re: GUU and the Collecting Community

Hello Everyone,

Thanks again for the feedback and let me address some of the responses here:

1) Let me first clarify what GUU is providing to the collecting community. Collectors have the ability to post on the GUU forum for free and also have the ability to post items for sale up to $500 in the GUU collector to collector classified sections for free as well. We are doing this to help our members as well as the collecting community at large and the rationale behind the price limits has been stated in my previous post. If other sites wish to assume the potential risks of allowing anyone and everyone to sell high priced items for free without their evaluation than that is certainly their choice. It is simply not something we are interested in doing.

2) Someone brought up the reference to the fact that many collectors here will use eBay in addition to the GUU Collector to Collector Classified section and they don’t see a huge advantage between dealing with each other here and using eBay. I would say the main difference is probably that in the GUU Collector to Collector Classified section collectors will be able to sell their items without a fee.

3) We will also be opening another selling platform soon where the protocols will be similar to the ones used in our consignment auctions. That is, potential sellers will send GUU their items and we will do the evaluations, write-ups and general selling. The platform will also have the same mechanisms where collectors can publicly ask questions and anyone with substantiated information can provide responses to those questions. It is a model we believe goes to unprecedented lengths to make sure items are properly represented and fully understood before they are purchased.

Items that are sold that have been sent to GUU before listing will have a GUU certification so that buyers know the process the item went through prior to being purchased. If someone acquires an item through the Collector to Collector Classified section the item will not come with a GUU certification. That is, we will only allow the GUU name to be associated with items we have helped evaluate (along with the overall system) to help assure collectors know what they are getting. We are not becoming an authentication company and we will not be doing independent authentications. We will use the certification program simply to help collectors understand the process that was used for items sold through GUU.

4) In regard to the “dealer” versus “collector” question, the “Collector to Collector Classified” section is, as its name suggests, being set up for collectors. If an entity is making a living in the hobby and carries huge inventories or consignments, they would likely fall in the “dealer” category. Again, this forum is being set up for collectors and we trust others will not try to abuse the privileges we are extending.

I hope that provides some clarification on some of the posts made here. We are in the midst of following up on a number of things after getting back from the National Convention and Cowboy’s Training Camp but we should have the Collector to Collector Classified forum up either later tonight or tomorrow.

[ham1963]

Re: GUU and the Collecting Community

I know what you mean geoff I have some game-used hats I would like to sell of trade
John
baseball3000@bellouth.net

[geoff]

Re: GUU and the Collecting Community

I like it.And I am looking forward to the New Section so I can Buy.Sell.And Trade some Game Used Items that I am looking to move.

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: GUU and the Collecting Community

What constitutes a "dealer"? I have a bunch of jerseys in my closet, which is, I guess, could be called my inventory. I also have a website. I collect jerseys, but I also sell some to make ends meet. The term dealer is often used as a dirty word, like "pusher". Extra punishment for dealing that game worn junk around the Junior High. If anyone reading has ever sold a jersey, and still has more than one jersey in their "stockroom", then by definition, they are a dealer. I usually start off by giving a low priced jersey away. You seem to like the durene knit and the tackle twill. You say to yourself: "I could see myself paying for this." It is a good experience. You learn about heat-pressed numerals and nylon mesh. You are now a dyed-in-the-wool collector. Forget about taking your girl to the movies. You got a game-worn jones, way down deep in your bones.
Donruss, Fleer and Topps are gateways to the hard stuff.

[JETEFAN]

Re: GUU and the Collecting Community

"For Sale" sections have been around since Fred Flinstone first listed Bam Bam's bat. There are thousands of sites with people selling anything from bats to martians! It can be done, Auctions are no less of a liability, in fact most of the complaints even on this forum have been geared towards Auction house issues. I would be curious to know of the thousands of transactions made through the old "For Sale" section on this forum, how many times has GUU been legally or otherwise responsible for any wrong doing. We are trying to force GUU to design a website to meet our indivisual needs and wants without having to do it ourselves. GUU is being forced to come up with excuses to avoid doing something they do not want to do to please the public. Thanks to GUU for providing a great tool for the collector and thanks to the thousands of forum members that have given GUU the name recognition they can benefit from today, they would not be here without you the members. The "for Sale' section without a doubt was the most popular section on this site, if it's new model is not to your liking, move on...... Like Chris mentioned it is a buisness and they entitled to make a profit.

George

[GoTigers]

Re: GUU and the Collecting Community

Thanks for the update. I believe the new Classified section is a great idea when paired with the new For Sale section. A free section that avoids fees on low dollar items will keep me from posting on Ebay at all.

I do have one question about the For Sale seciton... How will GUU address the "Conflict of Interest" claims that are sure to arise when serving as the authenticator while charging fees for sales.... Some would say that this exactally the type of thing this website was created to avoid...

Personally, I will use both new sections and have no problem with the fees or authentication.. Just thought I'd bring this up now as I'm sure it'll arise in the future.

[grandpahoo]

Re: GUU and the Collecting Community

First of all, limiting the items sold to a maximum of $500 is not only arbitrary, but also short sited in lite of the reasons for doing so. Does this mean that GUU is more than happy to deploy their legal team to cover the anticipated expenses of defending themselves against suits filed in transactions below $500??

No, it likely means the exact opposite - if the value of the items at issue is minimal, any lawsuit would likely end up in small claims court. If anything, limiting the value to $500 would keep GUU from having to call its attorneys.

I think having a classified section is a great idea. Protecting yourselves against liability is a must. I am not a businessman, I'm a social worker. However, I don't see any advantage in limiting the amount of the dollar amounts in transactions if there is a disclaimer that protects against law suits. I know there are lawyers here who could elaborate on this.....

A disclaimer may be helpful in defending against a lawsuit, but it doesn't preclude people from suing. And the cost of litigation is incredibly high, even if a claim has no merit.

[joelsabi]

Re: GUU and the Collecting Community

I really don't want to seem like a whiner. Of course, several of you who read this will see it as such. I guess that's fine, as long as I see it as my small attempt to contribute something to this, as a decision is made as to how to allow members to sell to one another through this site.

First of all, limiting the items sold to a maximum of $500 is not only arbitrary, but also short sited in lite of the reasons for doing so. Does this mean that GUU is more than happy to deploy their legal team to cover the anticipated expenses of defending themselves against suits filed in transactions below $500?? I think that we see that this is a compromise to placate those that have conducted transactions on this site in order to make as much money as they can. Is this wrong- of course not. But call a spade a spade, we deserve that.

I think having a classified section is a great idea. Protecting yourselves against liability is a must. I am not a businessman, I'm a social worker. However, I don't see any advantage in limiting the amount of the dollar amounts in transactions if there is a disclaimer that protects against law suits. I know there are lawyers here who could elaborate on this.....

This is not the first site that has offered a place for collectors to post, sell and comment on issues regarding game used jerseys and equipment. The arena of hockey offers two outstanding sites and neither has (to my knowledge) experienced any issues regarding collectors buying and selling articles that have been advertised on their sites. One site conducts auctions that have been (as I would assume) successful. In my opinion they are a bit shady, as they have banned some of its members for questioning items. This has not been done here and I have faith that it won't. I think they'd be a whole lot more successful if they would act in a more ethical manner and pull questionable items, but I'm just a guy with a limited income who wants to be a part of this hobby.

All I'm suggesting is this... Let collectors buy, sell and trade with collectors. Conduct auctions as you have and make some cash. By the prices realized in these sales, it seems fairly obvious that you all have capitalized on the ethical standards that have been set here. That's a good thing.

Presently, the members here all surf EBay as well. There really isn't a huge advantage between dealing with one another and listing an item on EBay. That's my opinion and I would be open to others, but we're all pretty well educated and know where we can get a good deal on something. The environment we work in determines how business is conducted. I really think that these things should be considered before short sited decisions are made that will adversely effct this ited are made. I love gameuseuniverse.com and I want to see it grow. Please don't cut off your head to spite you face with this issue. To many advances have been made due to your hard work... Thanks for reading...........

reed you have some very good insight with your experience at other forum's like the hockey forum you mentioned. also your post is well thought out and has some great ideas. i hope the the admin read your post carefully and perhaps respond to it.

[grandpahoo]

Re: GUU and the Collecting Community

Thank you for introducing a "collector to collector classified" section to GUU. Like many of you, I await some of the deals I will find on this valuable resource. However, there are a couple of concerns I'd like to voice:

1) I don't understand why dealers cannot post blowout sales, etc on the sub-forum
2) $500 seems kind of arbitrary

I would propose that collectors post inexpensive pieces on this forum, and that deals over $1,000 be worked out off this site. Or amend the "For Sale" section to not include prices at all.

Whatever the final decision is, I would be loath to allow liability to trump the will of the Game Used Universe members. By only being concerned with your own reputation, you will be the author of this site's demise.

It seems pretty obvious to me that they would prefer not to have a "For Sale" section at all, yet they've decided to bring it back in a modified form as a compromise. It's their website and their business. If you're that unhappy (which I've gleaned from numerous posts), you should start your own site. Otherwise, cut the brother some slack.

[dcgreg25]

Re: GUU and the Collecting Community

Chris, thanks for the update. The new setup seems very reasonable. Having the classified ads for items under $500 will be a boom for collectors of lesser named players. By using the reviewed selling platform for items over that amount, it will bring oversight and attention to the more expensive items. Personally, I believe this is a very good compromise allowing for the free exchange of information (and goods) but also providing income for the site and oversight for the more expensive items. Sounds like a great system! I look forward to not only the classified section but also the review section for more expensive items! Thanks for listening to us and keeping the forum great.

[DonFan23]

Re: GUU and the Collecting Community

I think what people are missing (at least as I read it) is that the sub $500 classifieds will work similar to the old for sale section, just without moderator oversight. The new selling platform will still be rolled out, but will be limited to more expensive items and dealer inventory regardless of price.

Chris - thanks as always for the update.

[skyking26]

Re: GUU and the Collecting Community

Great plan. I personally have always understood that "free" and an ongoing business cannot coexist. Carry on...

[reed1216]

Re: GUU and the Collecting Community

I really don't want to seem like a whiner. Of course, several of you who read this will see it as such. I guess that's fine, as long as I see it as my small attempt to contribute something to this, as a decision is made as to how to allow members to sell to one another through this site.

First of all, limiting the items sold to a maximum of $500 is not only arbitrary, but also short sited in lite of the reasons for doing so. Does this mean that GUU is more than happy to deploy their legal team to cover the anticipated expenses of defending themselves against suits filed in transactions below $500?? I think that we see that this is a compromise to placate those that have conducted transactions on this site in order to make as much money as they can. Is this wrong- of course not. But call a spade a spade, we deserve that.

I think having a classified section is a great idea. Protecting yourselves against liability is a must. I am not a businessman, I'm a social worker. However, I don't see any advantage in limiting the amount of the dollar amounts in transactions if there is a disclaimer that protects against law suits. I know there are lawyers here who could elaborate on this.....

This is not the first site that has offered a place for collectors to post, sell and comment on issues regarding game used jerseys and equipment. The arena of hockey offers two outstanding sites and neither has (to my knowledge) experienced any issues regarding collectors buying and selling articles that have been advertised on their sites. One site conducts auctions that have been (as I would assume) successful. In my opinion they are a bit shady, as they have banned some of its members for questioning items. This has not been done here and I have faith that it won't. I think they'd be a whole lot more successful if they would act in a more ethical manner and pull questionable items, but I'm just a guy with a limited income who wants to be a part of this hobby.

All I'm suggesting is this... Let collectors buy, sell and trade with collectors. Conduct auctions as you have and make some cash. By the prices realized in these sales, it seems fairly obvious that you all have capitalized on the ethical standards that have been set here. That's a good thing.

Presently, the members here all surf EBay as well. There really isn't a huge advantage between dealing with one another and listing an item on EBay. That's my opinion and I would be open to others, but we're all pretty well educated and know where we can get a good deal on something. The environment we work in determines how business is conducted. I really think that these things should be considered before short sited decisions are made that will adversely effct this ited are made. I love gameuseuniverse.com and I want to see it grow. Please don't cut off your head to spite you face with this issue. To many advances have been made due to your hard work... Thanks for reading...........

[zookerman182]

Re: GUU and the Collecting Community

perfect plan. $500 seems a bit low but i will deal. Maybe being forced to spend less is a good thing. Thanks for making such a forum and i am looking forward to its launch.

Matt