Show me your Game Used NFL Helmet

[aeneas01]

Re: Show me your Game Used NFL Helmet

Jim knows the value of an early Dolphins authentic helmet, and it certainly is not $125. Lack of identifiers or numbers on the rear, the changed mask, the pegged jawpads, etc. I know Jim's reputation, but I find it hard to believe, given how long he has done this, given how many helmets he has seen and sold over the years, given the prices that he charges for helmets, and finally given the price that he was asking for this one, that he did not know what he had and what he was describing. His business is selling game used jerseys and helmets, and you can not convince me that he didn't have a clue on this one.

i was trying to be diplomatic by giving yackel the benefit of the doubt because i know he has treated collectors fairly in the past. but of course your are 100% correct - jim has been around football helmets long enough to know the difference between a pro model and a youth model. the same goes for aj sports collectibles, another reputable dealer, that was pushing pac44 lids as game used pro models on ebay last month.

speaking of yackel, the $4,000 marinio "gamer" he has listed at his sight has some big problems as well - definitely bunk imo...

...

[helmets]

Re: Show me your Game Used NFL Helmet

i understand that he's a great guy and a very honest dealer. but he wouldn't be the first honest dealer to think he was selling an authentic gamer that was actually a youth helmet turned into a retail display helmet...

...

Jim knows the value of an early Dolphins authentic helmet, and it certainly is not $125. Lack of identifiers or numbers on the rear, the changed mask, the pegged jawpads, etc. I know Jim's reputation, but I find it hard to believe, given how long he has done this, given how many helmets he has seen and sold over the years, given the prices that he charges for helmets, and finally given the price that he was asking for this one, that he did not know what he had and what he was describing. His business is selling game used jerseys and helmets, and you can not convince me that he didn't have a clue on this one.

[JasonBanz]

Re: Show me your Game Used NFL Helmet

Wow , thanks for taking the time to point this out to me. I'm not a helmet expert because I spend more time on jerseys than anything. This was my first helmet I purchased. I guess I should have done my homework a little bit before buying. Am I upset? No. Great display piece. I'm glad there are experts out there to help me. Now I'm inspired to go out and do some homework on helmets . Thanks guys!

[aeneas01]

Re: Show me your Game Used NFL Helmet

jason - i hate to rain on your parade but that's not an authentic game used dolphins helmet and it's priced accordingly at $125. if you're looking for a nice display item that captures the feeling of a game used dolphins helmet, i think the helmet you're looking at will do the trick just fine at a pretty decent price. but if you're looking for something that saw the inside of the the dolphins locker room and was used by on a dolphins player on sundays, then you will need to continue your search - and, most likely, you will also need to be prepared to drop more than $125.

the helmet you are looking at is a riddell pac44 helmet which was a riddell's youth model at the time - it was not manufactured or sold for competitive adult play (high school, college, pro, etc.) but, rather, for grades 9th and below. there is just no way around this - and there isn't any plausible reason why an nfl team (let alone a high school or college team) would have purchased these helmets nor is there any plausible reason why riddell would have sold these helmets to adult teams.

unlike the adult models which were made of a more expensive and more impact resistant polycarbonate plastic (kra-lite), the pac44 helmets were made of a less expensive and less impact resistant abs plastic. needless to say riddell and/or any adult program would have been in a rather tough spot had it been discovered in a product liability suit that an adult player was injured due to wearing a pac44, a youth helmet.

i suspect the helmet you are looking at is nothing more than one of the many riddell reproduction display helmets in circulation that were available at retail outlets many years ago - riddell used several different models for these helmets including pro (adult) models, pac44's and even foam-lined shells. the pac44s, like the pro models, were typically fitted with usfl style facemasks while the foam-lined shells were typically fitted with kra-lite facemasks.

the first wave of retail/display pac44 helmets were actually fitted with riveted jaw pad snaps but these snaps were eventually replaced with "pegged" jaw pads that snapped into vacant shell holes - no doubt a cost cutting move. the yackel helmet is fitted with the "pegged" jaw pads and that's what he's referring to when he states "...the fateners are in disrepair" - most likely some of the pegs have broken off from the jaw pads. interestingly i have come across a couple of "kra-lite" pac44 helmets in the past at auction - that is to say kra-lite shells fitted with pac44 padding. but i would guess that this was due to folks putting pac44 padding into an empty an kra-lite shell they came across or riddell liquidating their old kra-lite shell inventory by fitting them with pac44 padding and selling them as display helmets.

anyway take a look at these photos:

a) the top three photos show a retail philadelphia eagles pac44 display helmet that was sold to the public many years ago - more than a few of these type of helmets have magically turned into "authentic gamers" as the years have gone by - go figure.

b) the two photos at the bottom left show a dolphins "shell" reproduction display helmet and the yackel helmet. notice that the "shell" helmet does not have any attachment method for the jaw pads (circled in red) - no snap rivets or peg holes, nothing. and notice the peg holes in the same area of the yackel helmet (again circled in red). now compare this to the game photo on the right which clearly shows a helmet fitted with riveted jaw pad snaps (circled in red), which is typical. if you search getty images you will be able to find a ton of circa 80s closeup nfl and college game photos of players wearing their football helmets - try to find just one shot of a player wearing a helmet similar to the yackel helmet, with jaw pad peg holes. you won't be able to because the players are wearing adult helmets, not youth helmets. btw i'm not saying that yackel is trying to pull anything here - i understand that he's a great guy and a very honest dealer. but he wouldn't be the first honest dealer to think he was selling an authentic gamer that was actually a youth helmet turned into a retail display helmet...




...

[JasonBanz]

Re: Show me your Game Used NFL Helmet

I e-mailed Jim and he said he got it from a credible source. I have every reason to believe him.

[JasonBanz]

Re: Show me your Game Used NFL Helmet

Helmets,
Do you think it's possible a youth helmet could have been used then? Maybe for a kicker or punter who generally have small builds? I have no reason to not believe Jim because he is a very respectable dealer. I sent him an e-mail to ask if it came from a credible source.

[helmets]

Re: Show me your Game Used NFL Helmet

My helmet is better then all of your helmets!! lol lol

Is that Tomlinson's mask for 2009?

[JasonBanz]

Re: Show me your Game Used NFL Helmet

Jason:

Any idea who used it? I didn't know that the Dolphins ever used Pac44 helmets...

Not sure, this is what Jim's description was of the helmet.

Player unknown, Riddell Pack 44 size 7, shell-dated 1981. The original facemask is missing and was replaced with a back/receiver mask dating to 1995. Good game-use is exhibited through numerous scuffs and paint marks on the shell, a purple paint mark which may indicate the helmet was actually used in 1982 when the team played Minnesota, in addition to plenty of dirt and sweat staining inside. The jaw pads are intact but the fasteners are in disrepair. An inexpensive item for the budget-minded Dolphins collector.

[suave1477]

Re: Show me your Game Used NFL Helmet

My helmet is better then all of your helmets!! lol lol

[helmets]

Re: Show me your Game Used NFL Helmet

Jason:

Any idea who used it? I didn't know that the Dolphins ever used Pac44 helmets...

[JasonBanz]

Re: Show me your Game Used NFL Helmet

Bought my first GU helmet today!! It's a Miami Dolphins helmet from the early 80's. Bought it from Jim Yackel and according to him the original facemask was replaced with a newer one in the 90's. Shows great use, can't wait until I get it!

[princip]

Re: Show me your Game Used NFL Helmet

i believe that is the same lid that sold on ebay a couple of weeks ago - for a very reasonable price i might add (imo). but the ebay lid was fitted with a 70s nop, not an xl jop. when i first started collecting helmets i acquired quite a few tak29's given they were always among my very favorite riddell models - gotta love the transition era they represent. a couple of years ago i picked up an impregnated maroon tak29 that was fitted with a yellow bd9 facemask that was in great game-used condition, a perfect theisman project lid. anyway, tak29's are great helmets....

a couple of things about the your helmet - a) given that it's dated 1976, you obviously have a vintage lid from an nfl franchise's inaugural season on your hands - that's pretty special b) the side decals on your helmet were also applied before the suspension unit was installed, another rare and special aspect of your helmet c) your helmet shows the classic signs of vintage side decal "shrinkage" that has left a perimeter of decal adhesive along the vinyl edges. just a great looking lid albeit it appears to have very lightly usage...

here are some photos of some seahawks sporting tak29 lids - herrera 1978 (top left), mccullum 1976 (top right), evans 1977 (bottom left), bebout 1979 (bottom right). frankly i think you should throw a dungard 140 on it to give it the evans look - but the kenny easley look isn't too bad either!




...

Thanks Robert. The 3 JOP XL's a mask that I always wanted to see on a true Seahawks suspension helmet, let alone a TAK 29. Visually, it's one of the most appealing to me, so, to have this mask on this helmet is a dream come true. Plus, I already have the DG 140 mask on my Coffield/Lynch helmet.

"i believe that is the same lid that sold on ebay a couple of weeks ago - for a very reasonable price i might add (imo). but the ebay lid was fitted with a 70s nop, not an xl jop."

Yep, this is that helmet. I'm saving the 2 NOP mask for my Mike Curtis lid , or, if I ever find a pic. with that #75 player wearing this helmet with the 2 NOP. It will be represented.

[aeneas01]

Re: Show me your Game Used NFL Helmet

Yes, that information is in the helmet. It does have some reconditioning tags as well. The "OPO" is followed by "H.G." - which I am not sure what it means. Normally they have something on the label about the chinstrap as well, but I do not see that. The "BU" I assume means Back Up, but with the wear that is present, the reconditioning stickers, and the photos that I see, it looks to be more than a back up helmet - unless BU means something different.

are you sure the "hg" isn't an "hc" which would stand for "hard cup" chinstrap? as far as the "bu" is concerned, i agree with you - can't imagine it would stand for "back up" albeit that does seem to be the most obvious conclusion. imo it would be very odd to label a helmet as a backup in that manner, to abbreviate it with "bu" and include it along with the other info in that area - it would imply that the helmet was a backup from the get-go as opposed to a worn helmet regulated to backup service... doesn't make very much sense to me.

I acquired a Seahawks Riddell TAK 29 helmet this past month, with an 02/76 date code. Quite excited about it, since, this particular helmet is so well preserved, yet, still shows some decent game wear.

i believe that is the same lid that sold on ebay a couple of weeks ago - for a very reasonable price i might add (imo). but the ebay lid was fitted with a 70s nop, not an xl jop. when i first started collecting helmets i acquired quite a few tak29's given they were always among my very favorite riddell models - gotta love the transition era they represent. a couple of years ago i picked up an impregnated maroon tak29 that was fitted with a yellow bd9 facemask that was in great game-used condition, a perfect theisman project lid. anyway, tak29's are great helmets....

a couple of things about the your helmet - a) given that it's dated 1976, you obviously have a vintage lid from an nfl franchise's inaugural season on your hands - that's pretty special b) the side decals on your helmet were also applied before the suspension unit was installed, another rare and special aspect of your helmet c) your helmet shows the classic signs of vintage side decal "shrinkage" that has left a perimeter of decal adhesive along the vinyl edges. just a great looking lid albeit it appears to have very lightly usage...

here are some photos of some seahawks sporting tak29 lids - herrera 1978 (top left), mccullum 1976 (top right), evans 1977 (bottom left), bebout 1979 (bottom right). frankly i think you should throw a dungard 140 on it to give it the evans look - but the kenny easley look isn't too bad either!




...

[helmets]

Re: Show me your Game Used NFL Helmet

Nice 'Hawks helmet M.
I really like the TAK29s.
Doesn't look to have any wear at all on the exterior or interior.

[princip]

Re: Show me your Game Used NFL Helmet

Updated photos here:

http://www.greenglare.com/76_TAK29.html