2009 Turner Field photography available for photomatches!

[cordovacollector]

Re: 2009 Turner Field photography available for photomatches!

And for a really good discussion of using pro athletes' likenesses, check out this page: http://www.commlawblog.com/2009/05/a...-of-publicity/ .

Sorry, one more post. Treant, you missed the whole point in your own references. Here's the main quote from your second one:

"2. The game makers had previously used fake names and players until an agreement was reached with each league's players association for the image rights."

That means they had to use fake names and fake likenesses UNTIL they bought/paid $$$ each league's players association for the use of the image rights.

And your first reference says nothing about an image of a specific player, singer, actor, celebrity, etc. That article is talking about if you take a picture of a tree, landscape, deer, etc. you can copyright it if you want to at the LOC. (But you really don't have to because the second you take it, you own it, you created it, you have the proof you took it. So it is usuallya waste of effort to go through the motions.)

But that applies only to images of generic things. You have to know your stuff when you start to sell because even some buildings own the copyrights to images of them. You can take a picture, make a poster, and sell it of an abandoned saloon in UnknownGhostown, USA ... but try and sell a poster you make of the Chrysler Building in New York ... OY!!!

This has been fun. Gotta dust the cobwebs off my old brain now and then.

[jobathenut]

Re: 2009 Turner Field photography available for photomatches!

I totally agree with you chakes-That's why i apologized as i was guilty of it.But i just had to say something as this perry mason stuff drove me nuts.And it just sounded so funny to warn kyle about this.I take pictures just like kyle(just not as good) and i am pretty sure i don't have to worry about bud selig knocking at my door asking for the pictures.It's tough to read and be silent about things so you have no choince but take the bait and go off topic and for this i'm sorry kyle.That's it for me,back on topic,great pictures,kyle-are you going to be at the upcoming series vs the yankees?

Major League Baseball isn't going to go after one kid taking pictures with a personal camera


Now let's stop trying to play Detective and get back to the original topic

All this side track crap is starting to get real old, real fast

[jobathenut]

Re: 2009 Turner Field photography available for photomatches!

I'm sorry kyle once again for stepping all over your thread.But cordover said something i just have to respond to.I gave up my camera,because i did'nt feel like getting my butt kicked by 10 security personel,and besides that i did'nt want to miss the concert.Me giving up my camera had nothing to do with "me knowing the law and following it".It was about being able to look the same way after the concert as i looked before the concert.Because the security was'nt going to just let me walk out of the concert(if i made them take the camera from me,and i did'nt willing give it to them)from thier tone i took it as they were going to walk me.So that's why i gave it to them.I'm pretty sure me saying "hey that's not the law,i'm going to ask permission from kiss to sell it,so they will be alright with it"was going to make the security go,"well ok take your pictures then".It was'nt a fight i was going to win,even if i was right and the law was on my side,at that time they are the judge,jury,and if i did'nt give it to them,the exacutioner.They don't care if you ask permission to sell it,they don't care if it's just for you,no cameras means just that,cause they know once you take a picture,they can do nothing about it.Again like bands and sports once you take a picture,you are free to do with it what you may,it does'nt go by how good a picture it is.That's just funny,it's your picture,you took it,how can they own something you took with your own camera.But i don't watch perry mason so i can't say things on here as fact.

Treant and Joba ~

Remember we're talking about high quality photos that amatuer photographers as talented as Kyle take. He's topping a lot of pros that I know!

The issue is sales and rights.

Even back in the dinosaur days of film (not digital) an amatuer like me could take a concert photo like this:

By knowing the laws and obeying them, I acquired permission to sell 5 copies of this photo. And with the money I bought a camera system the price of a car back then.

Joba, you'd maybe not be trying to take photos at a concert like this ... but this is what the Kiss security guards were concerned about that people can do who might not know and follow the copyright law. Interesting, you lost a camera and I bought a new one ... just by knowing the law and following it.

[chakes89]

Re: 2009 Turner Field photography available for photomatches!

Major League Baseball isn't going to go after one kid taking pictures with a personal camera


Now let's stop trying to play Detective and get back to the original topic

All this side track crap is starting to get real old, real fast

[cordovacollector]

Re: 2009 Turner Field photography available for photomatches!

I agree, Nate! Back to the topic. I apologize for it going down a different path.

Kyle, you are GOOD! Makes me want to collect a player from Atlanta so I can have photomatches from you. Instead, I might just have to start collecting photos taken and signed by you!

[cordovacollector]

Re: 2009 Turner Field photography available for photomatches!

Treant and Joba ~

Remember we're talking about high quality photos that amatuer photographers as talented as Kyle take. He's topping a lot of pros that I know!

The issue is sales and rights.

Even back in the dinosaur days of film (not digital) an amatuer like me could take a concert photo like this:

By knowing the laws and obeying them, I acquired permission to sell 5 copies of this photo. And with the money I bought a camera system the price of a car back then.

Joba, you'd maybe not be trying to take photos at a concert like this ... but this is what the Kiss security guards were concerned about that people can do who might not know and follow the copyright law. Interesting, you lost a camera and I bought a new one ... just by knowing the law and following it.

[ndevlin]

Re: 2009 Turner Field photography available for photomatches!

I'm sorry kyle as i know we have gone off topic here,as you're just looking to see if anyone wants you're great pictures.But yeah NDEVLIN-It says it on almost all concert tickets.And it's for the reason,they don't want you selling them.But some acts still let you take pictures and years ago motley crue did a tour where they encourged fans to bring video cameras and they let you take videos and tape the show as they wanted people to trade them.And i know the grateful(i know spelled wrong,im not a dead head)dead are big on taping thier concerts.That's why i am suprised that happen at a bob dylan concerts,as i would think he would be one that would be ok with people doing that.All i know you're lucky,that you got your camera.Years ago i took a picture at a kiss concert and thier security came up to me and told me to give them the camera.And i said i would just give them the film,and they told me,"give us the camera and you can stay,or we can take the camera and you leave.your choice.But either way we get the camera".They refused to take just the film,and the more i argured the more security they were calling on thier walkie talkies as more security kept showing up.And when there was like 10 guys standing around me,i decided it was time to buy a new camera anyway.

Yeah, I knew you were supposed to take pics, that why I did it quickly. I just didnt realize they were so strict about and actually ask for your camera. And I went to a Kiss concert as well back in 96 or so and it was a great concert. They put on a show.

Ok, sorry....back to the main topic..

[cordovacollector]

Re: 2009 Turner Field photography available for photomatches!

MLB isn't going to bother families with Instamatics and flash cubes. And I believe they allow a personal one-time fair use. They do care about someone with a Canon professional series lens in the crowd. (That's not the lens Kyle has, that's an example.) They will check when they see offerings of photos for sale on the internet or at shows or in stores.

Concert tickets have the same copyright statements as MLB on the tickets. They just enforce it at the concert. They own the use rights to all images, so does MLB.

Actually, concerts though stricter on site, will generally allow a few sales of photos. Within a couple weeks of the show they are more lenient but not for long-term sales.

MLB is only going to get stricter as the more affordable, fantastic hi-res digital cameras appear in the crowd. Great amateur photographers like Kyle and some of the rest of us have to appreciate working on our passion and hobby while we can.

As an editor that worked with copyright law and rights, I was just giving Kyle a heads up about keeping low key if he chose to sell.

[jobathenut]

Re: 2009 Turner Field photography available for photomatches!

I'm sorry kyle as i know we have gone off topic here,as you're just looking to see if anyone wants you're great pictures.But yeah NDEVLIN-It says it on almost all concert tickets.And it's for the reason,they don't want you selling them.But some acts still let you take pictures and years ago motley crue did a tour where they encourged fans to bring video cameras and they let you take videos and tape the show as they wanted people to trade them.And i know the grateful(i know spelled wrong,im not a dead head)dead are big on taping thier concerts.That's why i am suprised that happen at a bob dylan concerts,as i would think he would be one that would be ok with people doing that.All i know you're lucky,that you got your camera.Years ago i took a picture at a kiss concert and thier security came up to me and told me to give them the camera.And i said i would just give them the film,and they told me,"give us the camera and you can stay,or we can take the camera and you leave.your choice.But either way we get the camera".They refused to take just the film,and the more i argured the more security they were calling on thier walkie talkies as more security kept showing up.And when there was like 10 guys standing around me,i decided it was time to buy a new camera anyway.

I went to a Bob Dylan concert years back and took a picture real quick at my seat and put the camera in my pocket. A security guard came and asked me for my camera and told me I could get it back at the end of the show. Never seen or heard of anything like that before. Its ok, the show blew anyways.

[ndevlin]

Re: 2009 Turner Field photography available for photomatches!

Thank you treant-I was going to post that some people who think it's against some kind of law to take pictures at games and selling them or doing whatver you want with them,must be watching too much perry mason,i know i'm showing my age with that refrence.As the league does not own the pictures you take with your camera.I mean common sense tells you that.They just would'nt let you bring in cameras.It's the reason when you go to most concerts they don't let you bring camers/videos,cause they know once you take them you're free to do whatever you want with them.

I went to a Bob Dylan concert years back and took a picture real quick at my seat and put the camera in my pocket. A security guard came and asked me for my camera and told me I could get it back at the end of the show. Never seen or heard of anything like that before. Its ok, the show blew anyways.

[jobathenut]

Re: 2009 Turner Field photography available for photomatches!

Thank you treant-I was going to post that some people who think it's against some kind of law to take pictures at games and selling them or doing whatver you want with them,must be watching too much perry mason,i know i'm showing my age with that refrence.As the league does not own the pictures you take with your camera.I mean common sense tells you that.They just would'nt let you bring in cameras.It's the reason when you go to most concerts they don't let you bring camers/videos,cause they know once you take them you're free to do whatever you want with them.

OK, to prevent confusion, I'll just settle this. If you read this case (http://www.ca8.uscourts.gov/opndir/07/10/063357P.pdf), you'll see that MLB specifically does NOT own the rights to player likenesses, statistics, or names. The 8th circ. Court of Appeals held that "CBC's first amendment rights in offering its fantasy baseball products supersede the players' rights of publicity." Those fantasy baseball products included "names, nicknames, likenesses, signatures, pictures, playing records, and/or biographical data of each player."

Teams, CAN, however, prevent you from bringing cameras onto their property, which is what most of them do. That's how they keep people from taking video/nice photos, over which MLB could never claim ownership. Additionally, individual photographs CAN be copyrighted by the photographer (see, for a clear discussion: http://www.peterkrogh.com/copyright/main.html).

MLB can claim they own your photographs all they want; the back of a ticket is not dispositive over a federal court case. END OF STORY.

[kylehess10]

Re: 2009 Turner Field photography available for photomatches!

Kyle...awesome pics! Love to see what you have of the Jays from the May 24th game. Can you send a link to avaialble pics, or can you tell me what you have of Lind, Halladay, Rios, etc. Thanks! chris

Here's a few examples I have from that game. Let me know if you'd like to see more.

[treant985]

Re: 2009 Turner Field photography available for photomatches!

You can make the argument that the CA case only applies to fantasy baseball, but considering photos/video are so enmeshed with first amendment stuff, the holding would probably apply to just every-day people taking photographs for any kind of publishment or display...

[treant985]

Re: 2009 Turner Field photography available for photomatches!

And for a really good discussion of using pro athletes' likenesses, check out this page: http://www.commlawblog.com/2009/05/a...-of-publicity/ .

[treant985]

Re: 2009 Turner Field photography available for photomatches!

Not true on pretty much all you mention here. You can't individually copyright a photo because they own it, even if you took the photo. The own all rights to each players' image.

Does anyone have a current baseball ticket handy to post? It used to say this on the back of every ticket.

OK, to prevent confusion, I'll just settle this. If you read this case (http://www.ca8.uscourts.gov/opndir/07/10/063357P.pdf), you'll see that MLB specifically does NOT own the rights to player likenesses, statistics, or names. The 8th circ. Court of Appeals held that "CBC's first amendment rights in offering its fantasy baseball products supersede the players' rights of publicity." Those fantasy baseball products included "names, nicknames, likenesses, signatures, pictures, playing records, and/or biographical data of each player."

Teams, CAN, however, prevent you from bringing cameras onto their property, which is what most of them do. That's how they keep people from taking video/nice photos, over which MLB could never claim ownership. Additionally, individual photographs CAN be copyrighted by the photographer (see, for a clear discussion: http://www.peterkrogh.com/copyright/main.html).

MLB can claim they own your photographs all they want; the back of a ticket is not dispositive over a federal court case. END OF STORY.