$13,000+ Mean Joe Greene Helmet?

[aeneas01]

Re: $13,000+ Mean Joe Greene Helmet?

conspicuously absent from the description are the sensual and seductive terms lou usually employs. maybe he wasn't feeling amorous towards this particular helmet.

yeah, i'm surprised "Baddest of the bad, meanest of the mean, Greene only wore Riddell 12-point suspension helmets during this era" didn't instead read "naughtiest of the naughty, beastliest of the beasty, greene only slipped into this hard hat during this era."

but it kind of makes you wonder how someone else might have authenticated this lid, doesn't it? perhaps something like this?

-----------------------------------------

helmet matches exemplars: yes
photo style matched: yes
comments: matches favorably to game photos
helmet was photo matched: yes (source: getty images)

source: getty image #51790927 (helmet model type)



source: getty image #71182843 (decal style accuracy and placement)



source: getty image #81541334 (facemask style, nose bumper style)



source: getty image #78184783 (chinstrap and jaw pad comparison)



source: getty image #81087098 (paint wear)



...

[kingjammy24]

Re: $13,000+ Mean Joe Greene Helmet?

simply to enhance the appearance i imagine - give it a good cleaning, touch it up..

meh..i'm still lost. they look like 2 different colors to me. red vs yellow. seems like more than a cleaning. the original (yellow) didn't look bad enough to warrant an (undisclosed) restoration. i probably just don't understand helmets. maybe it's an acceptable thing to you guys to paint over them. personally, i don't like any type of restorations especially undisclosed ones and even moreso, ones that differ from the original state (such as turning a yellow stripe into a red stripe).

anyhoo, here's the original link and (comical) auction description for those interested:

http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=24805

"Hall of Famer Joe Greene's early 70's Pittsburgh Steeler game used helmet and only authentic example known. Every aspect of this Riddell 12-point suspension helmet is 100% accurate including decals, numbers and striping. Manufactured in 1969 for the 1970 season, the helmet features black lacquer on a white shell, and a subdued high gloss, typical of the era's game-used Steeler helmets. Helmet is size 7 5/8, which was the borderline size separating Riddell's regular shells from its "husky" shells. The cream snubber represents reconditioning from the 1970-71 seasons. Early 1970's vintage cage with original gray clips and original chin strap. Baddest of the bad, meanest of the mean, Greene only wore Riddell 12-point suspension helmets during this era. In addition, this helmet has been signed by Greene in silver marker."

did you catch that first part robert? "every aspect of this ..helmet is 100% accurate". 100%! anyway, yeah i get the whole painted shell vs molded shell issue.

conspicuously absent from the description are the sensual and seductive terms lou usually employs. maybe he wasn't feeling amorous towards this particular helmet.

rudy.

[aeneas01]

Re: $13,000+ Mean Joe Greene Helmet?

if the helmet was a legit greene gamer, why would someone alter the tape? what's the reasoning behind altering the tape?

rudy.

simply to enhance the appearance i imagine - give it a good cleaning, touch it up and then get joe to sign it. to be clear, i wasn't trying to say that the altered stripe pointed to a fake joe greene helmet - i was just pointing out the differences in the helmet from one auction to the next.

fwiw, upon closer inspection, it doesn't look like an additional piece of tape was added - it appears that a portion of the tape was painted, it looks like a starting point of the brush stroke is apparent at the top of the image and that the paint used was not heavy enough to cover stains in the tape.

that aside, the real problem with this helmet is that it's a circa '60s helmet (impregnated white, painted black) attributed to greene's early '70s career. this is a very big issue because it can clearly be demonstrated that greene wore a helmet molded of black plastic during this time, not a white helmet painted black. yet another helmet at auction that doesn't match up with what the player was know to have worn, as can be seen in photo after photo, film frame after film frame. yet another "exception" helmet......



...

[Jags Fan Dan]

Re: $13,000+ Mean Joe Greene Helmet?

As with many aspects of game used memorabilia, you have to go with the preponderance of the evidence until you can find a photo or footage that contradicts the preponderance of the evidence. If he wore a blck shelled lid in every photo found, a white shell is a tough sell. (didn't mean for that to rhyme.)

[kingjammy24]

Re: $13,000+ Mean Joe Greene Helmet?

if the helmet was a legit greene gamer, why would someone alter the tape? what's the reasoning behind altering the tape?

rudy.

[aeneas01]

sold at ami some years back for $13,000+, this helmet had previously made the rounds at auction - but by the time it hit ami, the center stripe had been altered and joe greene's sig had been added.

the photo on the left is from the ami auction, the photo on the right is from a previous auction. note that a piece of yellow tape has been added to the ami helmet in an effort to repair/hide the the missing section that can be seen in the other photo, near the facemask. looking carefully, you can see that the section of added tape begins near the top of the photo...





again, ami photo on the left, other auction right...





altered tape aside, i think this helmet has additional issues in terms of it qualifying as a mean joe greene gamer. first of all it's a '60s shell which means it was molded of white plastic and painted black. nothing wrong with this per se, however the steelers were very early adopters of molded colored shells (in their case molded black shells), and it seems they jumped on them as soon as they became available in 1970 (can you blame them, what a chore having to constantly touch up highly contrasting white shells beneath black paint!).

looking at photos of greene from 1970 on, it seems apparent that his helmet was molded of black plastic, not a white shell painted black - it appears that when he made the switch from an rk (bubble ear) helmet to a tk helmet in 1970, after his 1969 rookie year, he was issued the latest and greatest riddell offering: an impregnated black helmet. here's a look at the type of helmets greene sported throughout his career, from left to right... 1969: an rk helmet (white shell painted black), 1970-1974: an impregnated black tk helmet, white snubber, 1975-1976: an impregnated black tk helmet, wildcat bumper, 1977-1981: maxpro.





could it be that the ami helmet is indeed a mean joe greene gamer? sure, anything is possible. but before i stamped it as such, i would want to see conclusive photo or film frame evidence that greene sported a white tk helmet painted black. there are lots of images out there, but they all seem to point in another direction. did he use it during the 1970 camp, prior to the new shell arriving? did he use both an rk and a '60s tk during the 1969 season? definitely possible. but again, i would want photo proof that contradicts the many images that seem to point to the contrary.

here's a closeup look at the ami helmet (left) with the white shell clearly visible below the black paint. this sitch can also be seen in the 1969 photo of greene above (his rookie year). the photo on the right is of his impregnated black tk helmet. does a photo exist of greene sporting a tk helmet with a white shell exposed beneath the black paint? if one could be produced, it would certainly be compelling. if not...





btw, have any of you helmet collectors noticed that almost none of these helmets sold at auction, helmets said to have belonged to some of the nfl's greatest players, never show any signs of pro bowl paint? fwiw, greene made the pro bowl 11 consecutive times, from his rookie year on...

....