o/t-nba finals thread-lakers vs magic

[jobathenut]

Re: o/t-nba finals thread-lakers vs magic

master-Bynum gets himself into foul trouble real easy.So like i said,it really depends on how the refs call the games.If they let them play,then i think bynum will do ok,but if they call any contact or reputation fouls then he is going to in trouble.I alway's think it's funny,that a foul is suppose to be on the player that makes the first contact but i see players driving with the ball and plow into defenders and get the foul called on them.It happen to luke walton alot in the last round vs denver when he was trying to guard anthoney.I just hope the refs let the teams decided who wins.

Its good to get a little basketball conversation going on here. I'm not taking the Magic in 6 based on the fact that Jameer is returning. I honestly don't even know if its a good idea at this point to bring him back. I do agree with a lot of the things Mr. Miracle said. I do agree Gasol and Ariza are better defenders than anyone the Cavs had covering Turkoglu and Lewis. I was actually pretty mad when the Magic traded Ariza away. He was a great role player in Orlando and he showed a lot of upside to him. Turkoglu is a horrible defender in my opinion and will often foul to bail himself out of someone driving to the hoop. No question Bynum is going to be better defender on Howard than Ilgauskas. But the question is can Bynum stay out of foul trouble against him. He can easily get someone in foul trouble within minutes. After Bynum who would the Lakers have guarding Howard? Gasol maybe? I do also agree that not double teaming Howard is the way to play the Magic. I think they're more of an offensive threat with their role players scoring and hitting the 3 ball than with Howard getting 30-40 points a game. Kobe is also going to get his points there's no question about that just like Lebron James did. You can't completely stop him but you can take away his teammates from getting in on the action. All in all, I can't wait for the series to start as it will be good. GO MAGIC!

[Master Shake]

Re: o/t-nba finals thread-lakers vs magic

Its good to get a little basketball conversation going on here. I'm not taking the Magic in 6 based on the fact that Jameer is returning. I honestly don't even know if its a good idea at this point to bring him back. I do agree with a lot of the things Mr. Miracle said. I do agree Gasol and Ariza are better defenders than anyone the Cavs had covering Turkoglu and Lewis. I was actually pretty mad when the Magic traded Ariza away. He was a great role player in Orlando and he showed a lot of upside to him. Turkoglu is a horrible defender in my opinion and will often foul to bail himself out of someone driving to the hoop. No question Bynum is going to be better defender on Howard than Ilgauskas. But the question is can Bynum stay out of foul trouble against him. He can easily get someone in foul trouble within minutes. After Bynum who would the Lakers have guarding Howard? Gasol maybe? I do also agree that not double teaming Howard is the way to play the Magic. I think they're more of an offensive threat with their role players scoring and hitting the 3 ball than with Howard getting 30-40 points a game. Kobe is also going to get his points there's no question about that just like Lebron James did. You can't completely stop him but you can take away his teammates from getting in on the action. All in all, I can't wait for the series to start as it will be good. GO MAGIC!

[mr.miracle]

Re: o/t-nba finals thread-lakers vs magic

Not relevant to this series, but one of the greatest plays in Lakers playoff history.

http://video.vizhole.com/home-sports-nba/robert_horry

[jobathenut]

Re: o/t-nba finals thread-lakers vs magic

miracle-I really love what you have to say about this.I agree with you,this series could come down to "role" bench players.I wonder who the magic will put on kobe? As you said,i thought battier did a good job on kobe but again like you said it didnt matter.And i agree that turkoglu isn't really a dribble and make your own play kind of player.He seems to me,to be the type that just hangs out at the 3 point line and shoots the ball.Howard will get his points,and kobe will get his,it's about the other players.I just don't know if howard is as good as kobe when it comes to be a leader of his team.I mean kobe can take over a game and will a win for his team,can howard? I too had the celtics losing in the first rounds as i think last year was a fluke year for them.They were the nba's poster team,so they won.They always say if you live by the 3's you die by them,so i think i would just focus on the inside game if i was the lakers.And i'm hoping that walton will come up big for them.I just think the lakers bench is better.And i agree for a big man bynum isnt a tree big man and can maybe really make howard work for his points.But as it always seems to come down to,it's about how the refs call the games.

A couple of items here, I would personally take the chance that Howard would put up a monster night and go single coverage on him and cover the outside shooters and rotate on picks instead of letting the shooters pick you apart from outside. It is kind of like the same thing with LeBron, the Magic tried to shut down everybody except LeBron which worked very well. I don't think Howard can put up 38 ppg single covered. I think one huge difference is that even though Bynum is very very rusty and has not played up to his capabilities in these playoffs since coming back from injury, he is also not Big "I'm a tree stuck in concrete and can't move Z" and can actually move on defense.

The other big factor to me is that everyone keeps saying that Odom, Ariza, Gasol, Walton cannot cover Lewis and Turkoglu. I think that remains to be seen but I do know that Lewis and Turkoglu cannot cover Odom and Gasol in the low post. Those guys are finesse players and not bangers. Howard cannot roam the low post like he did in the last series and not guard anyone because in this series everyone is capable of scoring in the low post for the Lakers. I think people are giving Turkoglu way too much credit. The guy is not super fast, he cannot put the ball on the floor and create his own shots especially against a similar style player in either Odom or Ariza. I remember when Turkoglu played for the Sacramento Queens back in the day and about the only thing that guy could do was shoot 3's. If you keep a hand in his face and keep him in front of you he is certainly not creating anything off the dribble.

This should be an interesting series. BTW, I had Orlando in six over the Celtics. I was shocked that Boston even got out of the first round with that ragtag bunch of players. But then again, they did add the greatest player of all time Stephon "Starbury" Marbury on their roster which I thought might carry them to the NBA Finals again .

The other factor is that Michael Pietrus and Lee are both good defenders but they are no Shane Battier and Ron Artest. I actually heard a Magic fan compare both of them to those players and could not stop laughing. Battier and Artest played Kobe about as well as anyone could hope to in the Western Semi's series and they could not stop him. Kobe is obviously going to get his just as Howard is it is simply a matter of what other role players step up and do their jobs.

[mr.miracle]

Re: o/t-nba finals thread-lakers vs magic

Ok, I feel the need to chime in here. I live in Orlando and have watched every Magic game this season as well as attended a couple. People haven't been given the Magic credit where credit is due. Everyone said they'd fall to Boston and Cleveland but won both of those series. However, I do think this series with the Lakers will be a more difficult task at hand. The reason the Magic beat the Cavs in 6 games (really should have been a sweep if LeBron didn't hit that shot in game 2) is because the Magic gave the Cavs so many match up problems. I don't think you'll see that as much in the Lakers series. You won't have a 6'3" Delonte West matched up with a 6'10" Rashard Lewis on a switch. Another reason the Magic beat the Cavs is because they got much more support from their bench than the Cavs did. Hell, there was a stat in game 6 that said Mikael Pietrus outscored the Cavs bench 71-62 by himself. I believe the Lakers bench should do a better job than the Cavs did. Now, what the Lakers do have to address is whether or not to double team Howard or not. If they choose not to double team him, you possibly set Howard up to have a monster night. But, if they do choose to double team him, they set up wide open 3-pointers for his teammates. Lewis, Turkoglu, Lee/Pietrus, and Nelson/Alston/Johnson can all hit the 3 ball. Kobe is going to be defended by both Lee and Pietrus. People don't give these two the credit they deserve. They are both excellent defenders. I cannot praise Courtney Lee enough. He's a rookie but he's played like a veteran. The key factor is going to be whether or not Jameer Nelson will play or not. I'm 50/50 about this move. For one, he's been out for months and even though he's been working out with the team, it's not the same situation as a game, especially the environment of the finals. However, if he can return the same as before he got hurt, he would be a huge addition. Don't forget that he shot over 50% from the field and over 40% from the 3-point line this season. Its amazing when a guard can shoot over 50% from the field. Not to mention, he torched the Lakers in the 2 games this season (27.5 PPG). I do like him better than Alston but Alston has done a pretty good job as his replacement. The only thing Alston doesn't have that Jammer does is his chemistry with Howard. Nelson gives Dwight a lot of easy dunks where as Alston hasn't really done that too much for Dwight. Turkoglu is the only other one who does that for him. I guess its chemistry.

Sorry for the long read guys. In case you haven't guessed it by now, I have the Magic in 6 games. I feel as long as they win one of the first 2 in L.A. they have a good chance of closing it out. In any event, it'll be a good series!

A couple of items here, I would personally take the chance that Howard would put up a monster night and go single coverage on him and cover the outside shooters and rotate on picks instead of letting the shooters pick you apart from outside. It is kind of like the same thing with LeBron, the Magic tried to shut down everybody except LeBron which worked very well. I don't think Howard can put up 38 ppg single covered. I think one huge difference is that even though Bynum is very very rusty and has not played up to his capabilities in these playoffs since coming back from injury, he is also not Big "I'm a tree stuck in concrete and can't move Z" and can actually move on defense.

The other big factor to me is that everyone keeps saying that Odom, Ariza, Gasol, Walton cannot cover Lewis and Turkoglu. I think that remains to be seen but I do know that Lewis and Turkoglu cannot cover Odom and Gasol in the low post. Those guys are finesse players and not bangers. Howard cannot roam the low post like he did in the last series and not guard anyone because in this series everyone is capable of scoring in the low post for the Lakers. I think people are giving Turkoglu way too much credit. The guy is not super fast, he cannot put the ball on the floor and create his own shots especially against a similar style player in either Odom or Ariza. I remember when Turkoglu played for the Sacramento Queens back in the day and about the only thing that guy could do was shoot 3's. If you keep a hand in his face and keep him in front of you he is certainly not creating anything off the dribble.

This should be an interesting series. BTW, I had Orlando in six over the Celtics. I was shocked that Boston even got out of the first round with that ragtag bunch of players. But then again, they did add the greatest player of all time Stephon "Starbury" Marbury on their roster which I thought might carry them to the NBA Finals again .

The other factor is that Michael Pietrus and Lee are both good defenders but they are no Shane Battier and Ron Artest. I actually heard a Magic fan compare both of them to those players and could not stop laughing. Battier and Artest played Kobe about as well as anyone could hope to in the Western Semi's series and they could not stop him. Kobe is obviously going to get his just as Howard is it is simply a matter of what other role players step up and do their jobs.

[joelsabi]

Re: o/t-nba finals thread-lakers vs magic

Ok, I feel the need to chime in here. I live in Orlando and have watched every Magic game this season as well as attended a couple. People haven't been given the Magic credit where credit is due. Everyone said they'd fall to Boston and Cleveland but won both of those series. However, I do think this series with the Lakers will be a more difficult task at hand. The reason the Magic beat the Cavs in 6 games (really should have been a sweep if LeBron didn't hit that shot in game 2) is because the Magic gave the Cavs so many match up problems. I don't think you'll see that as much in the Lakers series. You won't have a 6'3" Delonte West matched up with a 6'10" Rashard Lewis on a switch. Another reason the Magic beat the Cavs is because they got much more support from their bench than the Cavs did. Hell, there was a stat in game 6 that said Mikael Pietrus outscored the Cavs bench 71-62 by himself. I believe the Lakers bench should do a better job than the Cavs did. Now, what the Lakers do have to address is whether or not to double team Howard or not. If they choose not to double team him, you possibly set Howard up to have a monster night. But, if they do choose to double team him, they set up wide open 3-pointers for his teammates. Lewis, Turkoglu, Lee/Pietrus, and Nelson/Alston/Johnson can all hit the 3 ball. Kobe is going to be defended by both Lee and Pietrus. People don't give these two the credit they deserve. They are both excellent defenders. I cannot praise Courtney Lee enough. He's a rookie but he's played like a veteran. The key factor is going to be whether or not Jameer Nelson will play or not. I'm 50/50 about this move. For one, he's been out for months and even though he's been working out with the team, it's not the same situation as a game, especially the environment of the finals. However, if he can return the same as before he got hurt, he would be a huge addition. Don't forget that he shot over 50% from the field and over 40% from the 3-point line this season. Its amazing when a guard can shoot over 50% from the field. Not to mention, he torched the Lakers in the 2 games this season (27.5 PPG). I do like him better than Alston but Alston has done a pretty good job as his replacement. The only thing Alston doesn't have that Jammer does is his chemistry with Howard. Nelson gives Dwight a lot of easy dunks where as Alston hasn't really done that too much for Dwight. Turkoglu is the only other one who does that for him. I guess its chemistry.

Sorry for the long read guys. In case you haven't guessed it by now, I have the Magic in 6 games. I feel as long as they win one of the first 2 in L.A. they have a good chance of closing it out. In any event, it'll be a good series!

one thing i do agree with is that Courtney Lee can ball. But to choose the Magics in 6 on the hunch that Jammer will be ready to play is a huge stretch. Jammer is going to be too rusty to be at 100%. I remember Jammer ballin the Lakers over the first month of the season but it total different mindset in the finals. Look at Bynum and how rusty he is. The one thing that Jammer nor Alston have is the finals experience that Cassell gave the Celtics last year. Who has any finals experience on the Magics?

[Master Shake]

Re: o/t-nba finals thread-lakers vs magic

Ok, I feel the need to chime in here. I live in Orlando and have watched every Magic game this season as well as attended a couple. People haven't been given the Magic credit where credit is due. Everyone said they'd fall to Boston and Cleveland but won both of those series. However, I do think this series with the Lakers will be a more difficult task at hand. The reason the Magic beat the Cavs in 6 games (really should have been a sweep if LeBron didn't hit that shot in game 2) is because the Magic gave the Cavs so many match up problems. I don't think you'll see that as much in the Lakers series. You won't have a 6'3" Delonte West matched up with a 6'10" Rashard Lewis on a switch. Another reason the Magic beat the Cavs is because they got much more support from their bench than the Cavs did. Hell, there was a stat in game 6 that said Mikael Pietrus outscored the Cavs bench 71-62 by himself. I believe the Lakers bench should do a better job than the Cavs did. Now, what the Lakers do have to address is whether or not to double team Howard or not. If they choose not to double team him, you possibly set Howard up to have a monster night. But, if they do choose to double team him, they set up wide open 3-pointers for his teammates. Lewis, Turkoglu, Lee/Pietrus, and Nelson/Alston/Johnson can all hit the 3 ball. Kobe is going to be defended by both Lee and Pietrus. People don't give these two the credit they deserve. They are both excellent defenders. I cannot praise Courtney Lee enough. He's a rookie but he's played like a veteran. The key factor is going to be whether or not Jameer Nelson will play or not. I'm 50/50 about this move. For one, he's been out for months and even though he's been working out with the team, it's not the same situation as a game, especially the environment of the finals. However, if he can return the same as before he got hurt, he would be a huge addition. Don't forget that he shot over 50% from the field and over 40% from the 3-point line this season. Its amazing when a guard can shoot over 50% from the field. Not to mention, he torched the Lakers in the 2 games this season (27.5 PPG). I do like him better than Alston but Alston has done a pretty good job as his replacement. The only thing Alston doesn't have that Jammer does is his chemistry with Howard. Nelson gives Dwight a lot of easy dunks where as Alston hasn't really done that too much for Dwight. Turkoglu is the only other one who does that for him. I guess its chemistry.

Sorry for the long read guys. In case you haven't guessed it by now, I have the Magic in 6 games. I feel as long as they win one of the first 2 in L.A. they have a good chance of closing it out. In any event, it'll be a good series!

[yankees24]

Re: o/t-nba finals thread-lakers vs magic

does anyone know when the Finals game worn jerseys will be auctioned off?

[sportscentury]

Re: o/t-nba finals thread-lakers vs magic

The Jameer Nelson issue is interesting. He's an All Star point guard who played superbly for the Magic during the first half of the season until he went down (as an aside, it would have been nice to see the old St. Joe's teammates Nelson/West go at it a bit in the last series). With the Magic having to hear so many analysts pick the Lakers, they may be feeling pressure to make a change. I would caution against this move. The Magic are not broken. Skip to My Lou has been terrific for them (this guy is the "back-up" point guard??) and they have great chemistry with them (just ask the Sixers, Celts, and Cavs ... but don't ask LeBron). If Nelson comes off of the bench to give Alston a few minutes of rest here and there, that is one thing. But this is Alston's team to bring down the court now. I would take the Lakers in 6, as I've stated. But the Magic have a shot. If they beat the Lakers, this will certainly not be the biggest upset ever. They are a heck of a team, and Alston has a lot to do with it. With Nelson going down, that could have been the end of their hope to go deep into the playoffs... and there really wasn't even a blip on the screen. I'm surprised that the analysts and commentators haven't pointed this out as much. They sure did talk a lot about the absences of KG and McGrady. I realize that Nelson is not in the same league, but he was the Magic's All Star 1 this year ... not exactly a guy you would think the team could do without.

[jobathenut]

Re: o/t-nba finals thread-lakers vs magic

This what i'm talking about,a actual discussion.No name calling,personal attacks,no playground behavior.Just talking about players as players.I am very excited for this series.I hate they wait so long to start it.And i don't understand why the first game is on thursday but game 2 is on sunday,seriously,they need a 2 day break in between games,with both of them in los angeles,i don't understand that.Hockey had back to back games in thier stanley cup,and to me that game is more physical draining than basketball.With what you said,i again agree with you.I don't think fish can guard fast young players,in fact i think he retires if they win this.And i've said since the magic won,that bynum guarding howard is the key to the lakers winning this.I don't think you let the magic shoot open 3's.I think you still guard them but force them to play a inside game and see if howard can face the pressure of the finals.But you could always let them take open 3's and that way they don't go into howard then.It will be interesting how this plays out.And i don't know like you said it is,to take a roster spot for a unproven injured player.To me if you're the magic,you just had one of the biggest iupsets ever,stay with the team that got you there.

After being out four months no matter what kind of shape he stayed in, there is no way that any player is in legit basketball shape. There is obviously going to be some major rust and conditioning issues. I am guessing that you might see Farmar guard him more often than not as Shannon Brown might be too big at 6'4 and Fisher cannot keep up with fast little guards anymore. Most likely he would play some spot minutes to see what if anything he could do. The question is, do you take a roster spot away from another player and hope that this guy can make some measure of a contribution?

Bynum is really going to have to step up in this series. He is the only guy that has a chance of slowing down Howard in any capacity if the Lakers decide to play the Magic straight up and don't double which I don't believe that they can afford to do. They cannot give open 3's and hope that the Magic miss. If Bynum cannot step up, they are going to have a major problem unless they dust Mbenga off and actually put him in to bang on Howard but you would lose some major offense or at least the potential for offense.

What I am hoping is that the last three series playing against bangers in Denver, Houston and Utah has hardened up the Lakers and they take the game right at Howard. They need to try to get him in foul trouble instead of settling for outside jumpers and finesse play. This should be very interesting.

[mr.miracle]

Re: o/t-nba finals thread-lakers vs magic

Miracle-I'm not familier with him.I did see that though.But how much good would he do coming off that injury.I think thta's what it would be all about.It's one thing to be able to come back to play.But the real question is how he will come back,and if his play will be the same it was before he left with that injury.Who would the lakers put on him?

After being out four months no matter what kind of shape he stayed in, there is no way that any player is in legit basketball shape. There is obviously going to be some major rust and conditioning issues. I am guessing that you might see Farmar guard him more often than not as Shannon Brown might be too big at 6'4 and Fisher cannot keep up with fast little guards anymore. Most likely he would play some spot minutes to see what if anything he could do. The question is, do you take a roster spot away from another player and hope that this guy can make some measure of a contribution?

Bynum is really going to have to step up in this series. He is the only guy that has a chance of slowing down Howard in any capacity if the Lakers decide to play the Magic straight up and don't double which I don't believe that they can afford to do. They cannot give open 3's and hope that the Magic miss. If Bynum cannot step up, they are going to have a major problem unless they dust Mbenga off and actually put him in to bang on Howard but you would lose some major offense or at least the potential for offense.

What I am hoping is that the last three series playing against bangers in Denver, Houston and Utah has hardened up the Lakers and they take the game right at Howard. They need to try to get him in foul trouble instead of settling for outside jumpers and finesse play. This should be very interesting.

[jobathenut]

Re: o/t-nba finals thread-lakers vs magic

Miracle-I'm not familier with him.I did see that though.But how much good would he do coming off that injury.I think thta's what it would be all about.It's one thing to be able to come back to play.But the real question is how he will come back,and if his play will be the same it was before he left with that injury.Who would the lakers put on him?

I am reading late last night and today that the Magic are seriously evaluating whether or not Jameer Nelson can go. Previously he had been listed as out for the season in February with a serious shoulder injury. This could be huge one way or the other as there was previously no indication that Nelson would even possibly be able to play in these playoffs. Nelson lit up the Lakers the last three times they played and being a small fast guard would give the Lakers fits. This could possibly be a major change on the dynamic of this series if in fact Nelson can go and contribute in a meaningful way.

[mr.miracle]

Re: o/t-nba finals thread-lakers vs magic

I am reading late last night and today that the Magic are seriously evaluating whether or not Jameer Nelson can go. Previously he had been listed as out for the season in February with a serious shoulder injury. This could be huge one way or the other as there was previously no indication that Nelson would even possibly be able to play in these playoffs. Nelson lit up the Lakers the last three times they played and being a small fast guard would give the Lakers fits. This could possibly be a major change on the dynamic of this series if in fact Nelson can go and contribute in a meaningful way.

[jobathenut]

Re: o/t-nba finals thread-lakers vs magic

sportscentury-yeah,i agree with you.I started this thread as i thought we all could just talk about all the games of the finals on just one thread.I apologize as i took the bait and went off topic with posters like cordova,who was ripping on knoblach.I just hate haters and had to say something about it.

What in the world does this have to do with Chuck Knoblauch? Or even the Lakers' chances in the finals for that matter? Another otherwise good thread down the drain.

Re: o/t-nba finals thread-lakers vs magic

I don't typically say I "hate" anyone. Hate is a pretty strong feeling.


I will say however, that I can't stand Kobe. I place him right up there with Iverson, Rasheed and Sprewell....my listed of NBA players I can't stand. Carmelo is very close to making that list as well.


I dislike them for a multitude of reason...mostly their attitudes and how they conduct themselves. Do I have any say in how they act? Nope, nor do I want any say. But I can choose whether or not to "like" them...follow their careers or whether or not to purchase any merchandise depicting their likeness'.