America, 4th of July.....and Grey Flannel....

[hblakewolf]

Re: America, 4th of July.....and Grey Flannel....

Can a lawyer comment on the fact that the lawyer (Doug) is located in California, however, Richie Russek/Grey Flannel is a New York based company-why would a New York company retain a lawyer located 3,000 miles on the other side of the country? If indeed this case went to court, what state would try it, New York? If so, what's the chance that Doug can practice law outside of California or in New York?

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@comcast.net

[otismalibu]

Re: America, 4th of July.....and Grey Flannel....

Wonder if this is the same gentleman who wrote the letter?


With the Los Angeles Lakers adding another World Championship to their storied franchise and Kobe Bryant winning the series MVP, we wanted to take this opportunity and offer to you, our loyal customers, three quality Kobe Bryant game-used jerseys which come to us direct from the Doug Friedman Collection. Each is accompanied by a Grey Flannel Letter of A uthenticity. Currently available are a 1997-98 Second Year Kobe Game-Used & Autographed Road Jersey, a 2000-01 Kobe Game-Used & Autographed Road Uniform from the Championship Season and a 2005-06 Kobe Game-Used Road Uniform. Please visit www.GreyFlannel.com to purchase these pieces of basketball history.

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: America, 4th of July.....and Grey Flannel....

"In recent years, the U.S. Supreme Court has allowed that only factual
misrepresentation is to be considered libel or slander, not expression of
opinion."

Rob,

Interesting. Where did you get that quote from? And thank you for posting.

Steve

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: America, 4th of July.....and Grey Flannel....

Can you post a scan of the letter? I'd love to know what is says, exactly.

Thanks,
Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

Here is a pdf scan of the letter for those of you who want to see it. I have blacked out my address for obvious reasons......

[Rob L]

Re: America, 4th of July.....and Grey Flannel....

"In recent years, the U.S. Supreme Court has allowed that only factual
misrepresentation is to be considered libel or slander, not expression of
opinion."

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: America, 4th of July.....and Grey Flannel....

Suicide Squeeze,

Mr. 3000 (Jason) is absolutely right about being intimidated by a C&D letter. I'm not an attorney, but I've written many C&D letters on behalf of some of my clients and they are meant to intimidate people into ceasing whatever action we don't like, such as using the client's mark or brand without permission. The only way for us to enforce a C&D is to initiate costly legal action; which we wouldn't do because it isn't worth the money. Even though we were clearly correct in our position it is just too costly to win the argument in court. Not to mention that we wouldn't want the dispute picked up by the trade media.

In your situation it isn't even clear that Grey Flannel would prevail. Depending on what action they took it could turn out to be more costly and more damaging to Grey Flannel. A slander case, for example, would be suicide (pun intended) to Grey Flannel because in cases such as slander they put Grey Flannel's business dealings under a microscope. No business wants that.

That said, there's probably nothing to be gained by continuing to attack Grey Flannel. The C&D letters, whether they irritate, intimidate or just upset you don't appear to be worth the stress they seem to put on you. The one thing I would recommend is that you reply in writing to the attorney who wrote you the C&D letter denying whatever Grey Flannel has alleged. It's always best to have a paper trail.

Happy 4th of July,

Jason

Thank you for the great advice and comments Jason. This is my paper trail. I have publicly apologized for the less-than-friendly name I used in regards to their business.....it was inappropriate and I will cease to use such "colorful" words. But I really know that the rest of it is just an opinion, and I am not breaking any laws. But to be honest, it's silly to have to worry about the next knock on my door being a local sherriff to serve me with a lawsuit, so I'm done.

At this point, it's obvious enough to me that Richard Russek would spend any amount of money to do whatever damage he could to me. I really feel it would self-destructive to his company as mentioned here......but I feel it best to just avoid the whole mess.

And to Mr. 3000 and others, I appreciate the support, but please, be careful and don't do something to redirect the anger towards yourself on my or any others behalf. It will serve no purpose in the end. We all have the legal right to state our opinions about an item in the hobby, without all the "issues" created by getting a bit overzealous in our loathsomeness for a particular person or entity. We can do our business here and maintain a professional approach. Thanks all.

Regards,

Steve

Re: America, 4th of July.....and Grey Flannel....

Howard, thank you for posting that. Not only was it completely relevant for this thread.....it was highly entertaining! Grey Flannel was on People's Court and got verbally smacked around by my favorite tv judge....Judge Milian. I wonder if they tried to hand her a C&D letter during that tongue lashing they received? LOL

[jbcindc]

Re: America, 4th of July.....and Grey Flannel....

Suicide Squeeze,

Mr. 3000 (Jason) is absolutely right about being intimidated by a C&D letter. I'm not an attorney, but I've written many C&D letters on behalf of some of my clients and they are meant to intimidate people into ceasing whatever action we don't like, such as using the client's mark or brand without permission. The only way for us to enforce a C&D is to initiate costly legal action; which we wouldn't do because it isn't worth the money. Even though we were clearly correct in our position it is just too costly to win the argument in court. Not to mention that we wouldn't want the dispute picked up by the trade media.

In your situation it isn't even clear that Grey Flannel would prevail. Depending on what action they took it could turn out to be more costly and more damaging to Grey Flannel. A slander case, for example, would be suicide (pun intended) to Grey Flannel because in cases such as slander they put Grey Flannel's business dealings under a microscope. No business wants that.

That said, there's probably nothing to be gained by continuing to attack Grey Flannel. The C&D letters, whether they irritate, intimidate or just upset you don't appear to be worth the stress they seem to put on you. The one thing I would recommend is that you reply in writing to the attorney who wrote you the C&D letter denying whatever Grey Flannel has alleged. It's always best to have a paper trail.

Happy 4th of July,

Jason

[earlywynnfan]

Re: America, 4th of July.....and Grey Flannel....

Can you post a scan of the letter? I'd love to know what is says, exactly.

Thanks,
Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

[hblakewolf]

Re: America, 4th of July.....and Grey Flannel....

Threats and the like are easy to make on the internet. However, they are not that easy to back-up. Drawing up a letter is cheap, actually taking legal action? Not so much...

I've been threatened with legal action before. Nothing came of it (and I did not back down because I was doing nothing illegal). If you are clearly outside the law, or in highly questionable territory like file sharing you might decide to capitulate but it's very hard to bring legal action against someone for something they said on the internet. I know of one case in which someone simply claimed other individual was using their computer and they got off even though they were clearly outside the law.

I have had my site shut down (Consumption Junction emailed my host and succeeded in shutting down my site for a short while), I've even had a site officially banned by a country (Pakistan, the BBC site showed the really cool memo). So yeah, certain actions can be taken... but dragging you down to court? They don't want to make a spectacle of this and when you get down to it a voice in the internet can't really be silenced.

Based on this thread, the following story reported by Michael O'Keffe of the NY Daily News may be relevant:

By Michael O'Keeffe
New York Daily News

Justice may be blind, Grey Flannel president Richard Russek recently learned, but it certainly knows when a letter of authenticity ain't worth a damn.

Grey Flannel, the Long Island sports memorabilia house, bills itself as the world's foremost authenticator of game-used jerseys, but Judge Marilyn Milian issued a sharp dissent in a July 7 broadcast of "The People's Court."

"The Case of the Ripken Rip-off" began when collector John Cherpock bought what dealer Sean Ford claimed was a Cal Ripken game-used retro jersey tailored for the second game of the Orioles' July 18, 2001, doubleheader with the Texas Rangers. Cherpock paid $2,475 for the jersey, which was accompanied by a letter of authenticity from Grey Flannel.

"I wouldn't have bought it without the letter from Grey Flannel," Cherpock said.

Six months later, Cherpock consigned the jersey to Robert Edward Auctions. The New Jersey auction sent it back because, contrary to Grey Flannel's LOA, the second game of the doubleheader was canceled thanks to a chemical spill that shut down parts of downtown Baltimore.

Cherpock told Russek and Grey Flannel CEO Howard Rosenkrantz he wanted them to reimburse him for the $2,475. Grey Flannel was liable, Cherpock says, because it issued the letter vouching for the jersey. "This is why people pay premiums for certificates, because they hold themselves out as experts," Cherpock says. Russek and Rosenkrantz offered Cherpock the $400 Ford had spent to get the jersey authenticated. Cherpock filed suit in Nassau County small-claims court, but agreed to bring the case to TV when contacted by The People's Court producers.

"Even if I lost, I would have let the public know what kind of guys they are," he says.

Before Judge Milian, Russek admitted his company had erred. But he said Grey Flannel didn't owe Cherpock the $2,475 because Cherpock didn't hire Grey Flannel. Besides, he added, a disclaimer on the bottom of the certificate of authenticity was just opinion.

Russek said Grey Flannel thought it had reliable sources for its opinion - a letter from a limo driver who said Ripken gave him the jersey and a letter from a guy named Charles Jeffrey - but he later acknowledged he didn't even have a letter from the driver.

"Let me talk to you about negligence," the judge said. "There are two types of negligence. There's plain old simple negligences, and then there is negligence that is so out there, that is so bad, that is so wrong, that it is gross negligence...it takes two seconds to just find out if the game even ended up being played on the date and time you are certifying."

Milian then went ballistic: "What you have is just a paragraph signed by some schmo named Charles Jeffrey with no address, no phone number!" she screamed.

By the end of the show, Russek looked like a whipped dog. "This is what gives the memorabilia business the bad reputation that it enjoys right now," the exit interviewer told him.

"Yeah, well listen, in almost all cases we're correct," Russek countered. "We made a mistake. The judge ruled. What can I say?"

"Yeah, but gross negligence," the interviewer added. "You didn't even try."

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@comcast.net

[KrAzY3]

Re: America, 4th of July.....and Grey Flannel....

Threats and the like are easy to make on the internet. However, they are not that easy to back-up. Drawing up a letter is cheap, actually taking legal action? Not so much...

I've been threatened with legal action before. Nothing came of it (and I did not back down because I was doing nothing illegal). If you are clearly outside the law, or in highly questionable territory like file sharing you might decide to capitulate but it's very hard to bring legal action against someone for something they said on the internet. I know of one case in which someone simply claimed other individual was using their computer and they got off even though they were clearly outside the law.

I have had my site shut down (Consumption Junction emailed my host and succeeded in shutting down my site for a short while), I've even had a site officially banned by a country (Pakistan, the BBC site showed the really cool memo). So yeah, certain actions can be taken... but dragging you down to court? They don't want to make a spectacle of this and when you get down to it a voice in the internet can't really be silenced.

[TriplexXxSports]

Re: America, 4th of July.....and Grey Flannel....

Man, you would think that in this economic downtime they would welcome more folks with open arms. Just doesn't make much sense to me.

I'm glad to know that they are so well off that they pick and choose who's money is good to them.

Oh, SH*T! I just made the list!

[TriplexXxSports]

Re: America, 4th of July.....and Grey Flannel....

What the hell is Grey Flannel?

(And I am being serious)

WOW! SERIOUSLY CHAKES?! It is one of the larger Auction Houses....

http://www.greyflannelauctions.com/

[chakes89]

Re: America, 4th of July.....and Grey Flannel....

What the hell is Grey Flannel?

(And I am being serious)

[Neely8]

Re: America, 4th of July.....and Grey Flannel....

I seriously would not be so easily intimidated by any C&D letter received from someone's attorney. ANYONE can have their attorney write up a letter and send it to you.


Watch....


It is my opinion that Grey Flannel SUCKS. I would not EVER buy anything from them due to their poor customer service and from what I have seen....the many, many issues related to items they have sold. I would never choose to purchase any item from them. If anyone looking to do so....please be sure to read the MANY threads on this forum related to this topic.

Jason Adair
Culpeper, Va (won't take a law degree to find my full address)



Should I receive any idle threat from their attorney...I will tell them then what I will tell them now....

They can take their little threats and shove them where the sun does not shine.


I am fully entitled to my OPINION. I am fully entitled to offer advice to others on whom they should and should not do business with. Nothing said even borders libel or slander.


I find threads like this.....where people are afraid because of a "scare tactic" letter....quite funny. Not funny at you Squeeze.....just funny in general.



/rant

You just made the list.