Players who trade jerseys

[Carlevv]

Re: Players who trade jerseys

One all star player would ask me to go to the cage during games to get use on his bats. Yea, he tipped me well for doing it but he was making good money himself. You talk about Manny selling jerseys to make money and how much money does he need? Thats a simple answer. THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH!!!!!!! These guys pay their employees, girlfriends, baby's mama's, strippers, and rolex dealers with the money they make on the side. That way the wife, money manager, agent, or family doesnt know he's spending. Professional athlete 101, if its free its me.

[kingjammy24]

Re: Players who trade jerseys

a similar article from the news section:

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_6191271

"'We don't facilitate things; we're just the couriers' said Keith Schulz, the Rockies' director of clubhouse operations. "The guys make their requests, and we do what we can.'...'We get a lot of requests for Todd, but we're getting more and more for Holliday and (Garrett) Atkins, too," Schulz said. 'Usually, opposing players want one of Todd's jerseys. So I'll order it, get Todd to sign it and ship it off to them.'"

rudy.

[metsbats]

Re: Players who trade jerseys

I purchased Rick Down's 86 retro. It does have some staining on the front but as we all know Rick did not play in the game but wore it in the clubhouse, dugout and on the field during batting practice. The Mets-Steiner CERT does indicate it as game used even though Rick is a coach and not an actual player.

[dcrules01]

Re: Players who trade jerseys

I bought the Oliver jersey.I didnt have a ton of money total cost was $350.That was right up my alley.I figured since MLB was selling the current players Mets authentics for $250 another $100 wasnt bad for a player worn that was on the roster and not hurt or a game worn.Either way im happy with my purchase.Why doesnt MLB classify players that played the game game worn and players that were not on the disable list as player worn.That might solve the problem.

[allstarsplus]

Re: Players who trade jerseys

Are we using the term "game used" way too loosely -- what do you guys think???

We discussed on a "definition" thread game used vs. game issued. The problem is that MLB has defined as you pointed out uniforms worn during the game but didn't play in the game as "game used". That would pertain to the relief pitcher that never saw action, etc.

I think the due dilligence with looking up the boxscores from the games these TBTC jerseys or special jerseys come from and seeing who played is a great step. Why pay top dollar for a jersey that you know only got out of the dugout for singing of the Star Spangled Banner.

[TNTtoys]

Re: Players who trade jerseys

I thought I'd latch onto the final few comments in this thread regarding the differentiation between game issued and game worn. Kudos to Steiner for starting this -- way too many times we come across jerseys with light wear, and there is no way of telling if they were worn or not worn in a game...
One of my own personal pet peeves is the jersey that is considered "game worn" or "game used" because a player put it on and sat on the bench for that game. I don't know about the rest of you guys, but this doesn't count for me.
A good example of my point is the set of jerseys that were recently released to the public from the Mets 20th Anniversary of 1986 weekend. For starters, the Mets did not wear the special jerseys on Friday night of the weekend -- they wore alternate black. Trachsel pitched a gem that night.
All roster players' jerseys were marked as "game worn," as this is the current standard within the hobby. This includes Trachsel who obviously didn't make an appearance on field in the jersey... this also included other players who were hurt during that series such as Glavine, Martinez, and Valentin... Other pitchers who never made an appearance such as Oliver... but their items are "game used."
When I display a special gamer, I know that it's going to be a conversation piece... someone is bound to ask me "what did he do in that game???" I'd like to have an answer other than "he sat on the bench" -- sort of takes away that special feeling if you know what I mean!!!

Are we using the term "game used" way too loosely -- what do you guys think???

[allstarsplus]

Re: Players who trade jerseys

Yankees Steiner is working on different holograms to differentiate between game issued and game used.

[metsbats]

Re: Players who trade jerseys

I agree with Rudy that the market will be oversaturated with current player GU product whether it be legit or illegit. We saw it with the card companies and it's only a matter of time the GU bubble will burst (the Yankees products being a prime example).

Knowing that authentic game issue jerseys can be ordered and custom patches and embroidery can be applied for a price is very disturbing.

-David

[allstarsplus]

Re: Players who trade jerseys

Rudy - You make some great points about ARod, Manny and the rest, but I think they have hurt their own market values because of the simple economics of supply/demand. Too much supply or low demand will keep the price down over time.

Look at what Yankees-Steiner prices have done over the last 2 seasons on jerseys (except Jeter & Matsui). You would never see last year a Yankee jersey selling for under $300!

[kingjammy24]

Re: Players who trade jerseys

i suppose everyone's got a different experiences. i find myself finding a decent amount of "perfect jerseys" that show little use to be honest.

part of the issue is that the other "problems" mentioned aren't always problems. wash codes, for example, aren't ironclad guarantees. 6200s will sometimes end up in locker rooms and be genuinely used. it'd be naive to look at a jersey and decide that because it's a 6200, then couldn't possibly have been game used.

as for clearly incorrect fonts, i don't run across those too often. i'd guess that the hobby is sophisticated enough that most aren't going to commit blatant font errors. as for subtle font differences, teams themselves are sometimes inconsistent.

rob mentioned incorrect sizes. players often change sizes or experiment with sizes to see what fits best. i've even seen some players legitimately take a different size in a road jersey than a home jersey. how's it possible to look at a pujols jersey, for example, and determine that he never wore a 52 in any game?

dontrelle may not be selling his collection (yet), however what about joe benchwarmer who obtained an ortiz jersey? how about, as howard mentioned, the players who aren't even trading but rather just ordering any jersey they like? joe benchwarmer knows he isn't going to have a long, profound career so while he's in the majors he's ordering up boatloads of willis',ramirez', howards', etc etc. joe benchwarmer knows it's like printing money. where do those end up? what about the equipment managers? are none of them ordering these jerseys for themselves?

as for motives etc., after seeing ARod make $250 mill and STILL sign memorabilia deals (how much money can 1 human possibly want?) or griffey jr making gobs of cash and yet STILL deliberately flood the market with his bats and jerseys or manny ramirez making more money than he can possibly spend in 1 lifetime choosing to sell dozens of jerseys to make even more money, i don't think logic applies to any of this. manny probably sold around $30k-$40k worth of his jerseys a year. why would a man making $20 mill a year bother selling $30k worth of jerseys?

if you think this isn't going to pose any sort of problem, then i'd like to know what you make of the ramirez jersey situation. were all those ramirez jerseys pumped out by manny in 2003 and 2004 of no consequence? dozens and dozens of jerseys sold for thousands a piece, like some sort of assembly line pumping them out all with manny's own loa. even though they had bizarre tagging, people still snapped them up because they came directly from manny.

players may have been doing this for awhile but my point is that it seems to be escalating to an unprecidented level. look at the early 90's - how many players were marketing their game used items? look at how many are marketing them now. the escalation is cause for concern. it's one thing, for example, if your neighborhood experiences 1 burgarly a year. if that number jumps to 50 a year, it's a different matter.

the effort to make a stellar fake is substantial. why bother with all that work when apparently you can just order up 30 david ortiz jerseys all properly tagged and perfectly numbered/lettered?

i don't think dontrelle is rushing to ebay but a clubhouse is filled more than multimillionaire superstars. if equipment managers, thirdstring players who are a week away from a lifetime return to AA ball, and all of their friends/"business associates" have access to as many perfect, superstar jerseys as they can carry, then i think dismissing that situation as trivial is shortsighted.

rudy.

[GrndSlm]

Re: Players who trade jerseys

Andrew, I agree with your statement. I am seeing alot more problems with stitching, interior tagging 0062 vs 6200 and different style lettering. How many times do you actually see a jersey that is perfect in every detail except the it has little use !! I know that they are out there but all the other problems with jerseys usually are more consistent than the criticism of where it came from.

Juan Iglesias
GrndSlm@aol.com

[allstarsplus]

Re: Players who trade jerseys

Remember that players have been doing this with bats for years and we managed to enjoy the hobby with many lightly used bats hitting the market. Lets just try and continued the trend with jerseys and just buy what makes you happy.

Great thread. Dontrelle Willis isn't selling his jerseys that he has collected on eBay so he's not the problem. I can't imagine the problem is that widespread outside of all the Pujols jerseys and Bonds jerseys out there.

Seems to me it is still the old issue with the crafty person with good embroidery and sewing skills buying the blanks.

[GrndSlm]

Re: Players who trade jerseys

Now, in reference to any equipt. mgr. ordering jerseys......My clients have asked me to order jerseys ,of other players, through the team and I personally have talked to the equipt mgr. with mixed results. They have ordered the jerseys for me but in no way have they ever come back with proper game used tagging. !! Also, in 2001 Livan Hernandez had asked me to order some Yankee jerseys using his brothers name with the equipt mgr. I ordered a Mariano Rivera, and El Duque for Livan and his brother. None of these pieces came back with proper tagging and they ALL had the "R" on the sleeve. I guess what I am trying to say is that these jerseys could be ordered through the teams but I personally have never received a properly tagged non-generic jersey through this process. Last note, Pujols is very selective with all his game used items. ( as most of you know). He gave Livan a jersey on the last meeting they had last year and personalized it to him. He doesnt give out his GAMERS without personalizing them first or through his foundation. Stuff always filter out but not through proper channels. Enjoy !!

Juan Iglesias
GrndSlm@aol.com

[GrndSlm]

Re: Players who trade jerseys

Alot of this information has been rumored for years. We must remember that part of the "hobby" is investigating and hunting for these prized pieces. I also know for a fact that players order jerseys for trade. My clients have instructed there equipt. mgrs to order them 10-12 jerseys before the season actually starts. This usually means that those jerseys come in all at the same time with proper tagging and sizes. Usually, any pieces that are ordered during the season will come in with some kind of problem. But, who is to say whether they used this item or not ? I also have obtained jerseys directly from the player with somekind of issue or inconsistancy. Recently, one of my clients obtained a Pujols jersey directly after the game and it had the proper tag and size but was a 6200. I cant get anymore direct than that !! Remember that players have been doing this with bats for years and we managed to enjoy the hobby with many lightly used bats hitting the market. Lets just try and continued the trend with jerseys and just buy what makes you happy.

Thanks,
Juan Iglesias
GrndSLm@aol.com

[ahuff]

Re: Players who trade jerseys

Great post Rudy. I couldn't help but think of the same thing while reading this post, and during recent days of collecting. Recent days have made me seriously reconsider what I collect, when it comes to the new stuff.