Reselling items not in your possession

[emann]

Re: Reselling items not in your possession

Just to be clear, the typical scenario we are discussing is when the "broker" has the consent of the seller. I would NEVER enter into a transaction when the seller is offering an item they do not own nor does the owner know the seller is offering the item.

If you can look back, I do not believe the above is not what the deleted "fraud" post referenced... The thing here Chris is how would you ever know that the seller doesn't own the item?

What was essentially being described was say: seller 1 (the owner of the actual item) lists if for $500, then seller 2 just takes photos from that listing, without consent, and offers that same item, without taking possession or with consent, for $700. If he sells it for $700, he buys it from seller 1 for $500. Quick $200 profit without the risk of his own cash in a flip.

[Takuleechch]

Re: Reselling items not in your possession

[QUOTE=emann;342797]I have no idea if it is illegal, but the risk taken by the "seller" certainly makes it more than possible that the buyer won't receive an item. If you're offering something for sale you don't own, how can you be sure it will still be available when you find a buyer? It only works if the original seller knows you're doing this—then you're brokering a transaction. What has been described isn't that...]/QUOTE]


If it isn't available then you send a refund right? Cause if you keep it then that's illegal.
I'm sure this happens quite frequently.

[Takuleechch]

Re: Reselling items not in your possession

Look, if I say hey guys I'm looking for a Lebron jersey and get a message saying "hey I can get you this Lebron jersey. Send me this much and I'll send you the jersey" as long as I get the jersey there's nothing illegal. The seller got his money, the "broker"/finder got his and I get the jersey.
The only time it becomes a legal issue is if I don't get the jersey.
People aka the seller may not like it if they find out but it's not illegal

[Takuleechch]

Re: Reselling items not in your possession

Thats not even remotely the same thing. You're just offering a little cash for someone to keep an eye out and you're the one doing it. The seller still gets their money and no one is handling it other than the seller and eventual buyer... no middle man. I see what you're saying, but theres nothing sketchy about someone offering a finders fee for items. Selling an item you dont have and posting pictures of it as if it were yours is wrong.

So you think that when given the chance to get a $20 finders fee or being a middle man and getting a 200$ cut people are taking the $20?

This only becomes illegal when the buyer doesn't receive the item.

[EricTheRed44]

Re: Reselling items not in your possession

Flipping items isn't new and isn't illegal. That from what I've been told that issue wasn't raised recently. People do it all the time
In fact I always see people on this forum offering "finders fees" to people who can find them an item which in a way could be considered the same thing

Thats not even remotely the same thing. You're just offering a little cash for someone to keep an eye out and you're the one doing it. The seller still gets their money and no one is handling it other than the seller and eventual buyer... no middle man. I see what you're saying, but theres nothing sketchy about someone offering a finders fee for items. Selling an item you dont have and posting pictures of it as if it were yours is wrong.

[ChrisCavalier]

Re: Reselling items not in your possession

I have no idea if it is illegal, but the risk taken by the "seller" certainly makes it more than possible that the buyer won't receive an item. If you're offering something for sale you don't own, how can you be sure it will still be available when you find a buyer? It only works if the original seller knows you're doing this—then you're brokering a transaction. What has been described isn't that...

Maybe this is the root of all those ebay auctions we see ending and sellers backing out of transactions with an excuse? Some of them didn't have the item in the first place...

Just to be clear, the typical scenario we are discussing is when the "broker" has the consent of the seller. I would NEVER enter into a transaction when the seller is offering an item they do not own nor does the owner know the seller is offering the item.

-Chris

[emann]

Re: Reselling items not in your possession

Yes I understand what you're saying. But if you receive the item you paid for how is it a scam?

I know that people have done this to me before, both ways, and there's nothing illegal as long as someone gets what they paid for. It may not be "right" but it's not "illegal"

I have no idea if it is illegal, but the risk taken by the "seller" certainly makes it more than possible that the buyer won't receive an item. If you're offering something for sale you don't own, how can you be sure it will still be available when you find a buyer? It only works if the original seller knows you're doing this—then you're brokering a transaction. What has been described isn't that...

Maybe this is the root of all those ebay auctions we see ending and sellers backing out of transactions with an excuse? Some of them didn't have the item in the first place...

[ChrisCavalier]

Re: Reselling items not in your possession

For new collectors, I think the point about the seller's reputation is critical.

There are some "brokers" who are well known for shopping items with the consent of the current owner (usually someone who doesn't have the time and/or interest to try to find buyers for his/her items) and I personally would not hesitate to work with them if I were looking to buy a specific item.

On the other hand, unless the person has a solid reputation for being honest and can be verified through credible sources, I would be VERY reluctant to agree to purchase anything from someone, and especially send money to anyone, unless they physically have the item in their possession.

Again, please use caution and find out as much information up front before entering into any transaction.

-Chris

[Phil316]

Re: Reselling items not in your possession

I had a similar situation as well on craigslist. I was buying a few Seahawks gamers from current Seahawks players direct from a practice squad player. He never told me up front that he did not even have them yet. I assumed by the way he spoke to me that he did. The deal dragged on for a couple weeks. Last weekend we finally met up to do the deal and he did not deliver what was promised. I still got a few cool pieces but he told me that the team collected the jerseys before the player was able to tuck it away.

[Takuleechch]

Re: Reselling items not in your possession

This is a great thread. I have had a few "brokered" deals done between myself & a couple other collectors over the last year. One person I deal with is a very well known forum member here, and he always lets me know that he does NOT have the item but he's acting as a middle man. It's assumed by me that he will do a mark up to make a profit, which is fine, but he's always up front about it. And on the other hand I did a deal recently with a former member that sent me pics, said it was a done deal, and he delayed for literally MONTHS in meeting me to deliver the bat. Turns out he didn't have it in his possession. There was a major misunderstanding between him & the person that actually had the bat. I would have appreciated him being up front in the 1st place. I eventually got the bat, but the terms had to be changed & I had to pay more than what was originally agreed upon. So my advice is maybe just ask the person you're dealing with if they have the item, or ask around other folks in the hobby about people's reputations. We all have each others backs hopefully.

Exactly. I had one time I was offered an item then saw it on eBay from a different person so finding out that way definitely rubs you the wrong way.

[dangerzone79]

Re: Reselling items not in your possession

This is a great thread. I have had a few "brokered" deals done between myself & a couple other collectors over the last year. One person I deal with is a very well known forum member here, and he always lets me know that he does NOT have the item but he's acting as a middle man. It's assumed by me that he will do a mark up to make a profit, which is fine, but he's always up front about it. And on the other hand I did a deal recently with a former member that sent me pics, said it was a done deal, and he delayed for literally MONTHS in meeting me to deliver the bat. Turns out he didn't have it in his possession. There was a major misunderstanding between him & the person that actually had the bat. I would have appreciated him being up front in the 1st place. I eventually got the bat, but the terms had to be changed & I had to pay more than what was originally agreed upon. So my advice is maybe just ask the person you're dealing with if they have the item, or ask around other folks in the hobby about people's reputations. We all have each others backs hopefully.

[Roady]

Re: Reselling items not in your possession

Not if the buyer receives the item. Just like the car analogy used. They take your money for something they don't own but get you.

Be careful with your posts - as Chris said this is thread is only about selling something you don't own

I appreciate the reminder. I was trying to be careful but maybe I can be more discreet about it.
Chris, If my post are in any violation please remove them or warn me or whatever you need to do.

[Takuleechch]

Re: Reselling items not in your possession

To add to #4............It becomes illegal if the "flipper" accepted money for the item before purchasing it from the original seller. That would be considered theft of goods and fraud.

Not if the buyer receives the item. Just like the car analogy used. They take your money for something they don't own but get you.

Be careful with your posts - as Chris said this is thread is only about selling something you don't own

[Roady]

Re: Reselling items not in your possession

To add to #4............It becomes illegal if the "flipper" accepted money for the item before purchasing it from the original seller. That would be considered theft of goods and fraud.

I could be wrong about theft since the item was not stolen and delivered without compensation. The legal terminology could be argued but it would be harder to prove.
But fraud I believe is a strong case.

[Roady]

Re: Reselling items not in your possession

To add to #4............It becomes illegal if the "flipper" accepted money for the item before purchasing it from the original seller. That would be considered theft of goods and fraud.