Panini Turns Tom Brady's 2013 AFC Championship Jersey Into Jersey Cards

[jmeekins33]

Re: Panini Turns Tom Brady's 2013 AFC Championship Jersey Into Jersey Cards

I think it's a more complex issue than people like me just "not getting it", or thinking it's stupid. Especially when you talk about vintage jerseys being destroyed. I think it's morally wrong and unethical to butcher these things.

[G1X]

Re: Panini Turns Tom Brady's 2013 AFC Championship Jersey Into Jersey Cards

Please forgive me, but....

I understand that not everyone can afford to buy a Tom Brady playoff jersey. I, for example, can't afford to buy a Ferrari but that doesn't mean I want some third party chopping up Ferarris and selling me a tail light or a "street used" Ferrari tire. I don't think this trading card thing is any less absurd.

A question. If you like something, why would you want to destroy it just so you can take a little piece of it? Are people that selfish? What if there was one Mickey Mantle jersey left on Earth and some stupid card company bought it. Then what? At what point does this thing go from something that you simply don't like or understand, to a crime? How many historic artifacts have to go into the wood chipper before it's enough already? I know the population of modern jerseys isn't exactly endangered, but they aren't just cutting up modern jerseys.

johnsontravis said it so well in a previous post when he stated, " . . . However that is what is rare and collectible in their hobby and I am not going to say it is totally stupid. How many people who don't collect game used gear look at your stuff and think it is worth more than $5? Probably not many. Most are confused why we have dirty laundry hanging on our walls. On the other hand collecting pieces of paper that look different seems pretty stupid to me. It just looks worse than it is because they collect stuff that "destroys" what we collect to make it happen."

Somewhat repeating what I previously posted, collectors of "chase cards" place value on these types of cards, and I would guess that many of them think that collecting game-used items is unappealing and strange, and probably see the card as a much more valuable collectible in their eyes. Just because we think that it is totally stupid to carve up a game-used item doesn't make us the moral compass on how game-used items should be treated and dispensed into the general sports collecting community.

Think about this, there are those who see some of us as being selfish for hanging museum worthy game-used jerseys in our closets or on our walls for no one to see and enjoy except ourselves and maybe a few friends. Are we wrong, selfish, etc.? I don't think so, but I certainly understand why some folks would think so.

And I ask this question that I raised in my previous post. Why no finger pointing at the teams, brokers, dealers, etc. who are selling these game-used items to the card companies? Yes, some of your favorite teams, uniform dealers, etc. have probably sold directly to card companies knowing what would happen to the items.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange

ALWAYS LOOKING FOR WORLD FOOTBALL LEAGUE UNIFORMS

[jmeekins33]

Re: Panini Turns Tom Brady's 2013 AFC Championship Jersey Into Jersey Cards

Please forgive me, but....

I understand that not everyone can afford to buy a Tom Brady playoff jersey. I, for example, can't afford to buy a Ferrari but that doesn't mean I want some third party chopping up Ferarris and selling me a tail light or a "street used" Ferrari tire. I don't think this trading card thing is any less absurd.

A question. If you like something, why would you want to destroy it just so you can take a little piece of it? Are people that selfish? What if there was one Mickey Mantle jersey left on Earth and some stupid card company bought it. Then what? At what point does this thing go from something that you simply don't like or understand, to a crime? How many historic artifacts have to go into the wood chipper before it's enough already? I know the population of modern jerseys isn't exactly endangered, but they aren't just cutting up modern jerseys.

[johnsontravis@ymail.com]

Re: Panini Turns Tom Brady's 2013 AFC Championship Jersey Into Jersey Cards

Depends on the player though. I've seen people pay like $750 for a piece of a bat knob but you could buy a whole bat of that player for cheaper then $750.

Of course, that is where it doesn't make sense to me. Bay knobs and laundry tags are ridiculous. However that is what is rare and collectible in their hobby and I am not going to say it is totally stupid. How many people who don't collect game used gear look at your stuff and think it is worth more than $5? Probably not many. Most are confused why we have dirty laundry hanging on our walls. On the other hand collecting pieces of paper that look different seems pretty stupid to me.

It just looks worse than it is because they collect stuff that "destroys" what we collect to make it happen.

[yanks12025]

Re: Panini Turns Tom Brady's 2013 AFC Championship Jersey Into Jersey Cards

I get the craze to an extent. A sliver of something is way cheaper than a whole jersey. A Rodgers card is like $50 and an entire jersey is the price of a brand new car. So it has value in that sense. im not all about the excitement though. It is just such a tiny piece and I have seen many examples of how shady it is. Lots of questionable cards etc. I would rather have say a role players whole jersey than a questionable patch of a star player

Depends on the player though. I've seen people pay like $750 for a piece of a bat knob but you could buy a whole bat of that player for cheaper then $750.

[G1X]

Re: Panini Turns Tom Brady's 2013 AFC Championship Jersey Into Jersey Cards

One thing we all need to keep in mind is that when it comes to collecting, different things appeal to different people. Just because many of us cringe when seeing game-used jerseys destroyed, a lot of folks who collect cards think that it is a great idea. No one is really right or wrong, it is is just a completely different perspective of what is considered a collectible.

It is often stated in this Forum that once you buy a jersey it is your right to do with it as you please. So if a card company buys a jersey, it is their right to cut it up (and our right to cringe at the thought). Heck, us game-used collectors don't even agree when it comes to preserving our game-used gear. For example, some are horrified when they hear of collectors wearing their game-used jerseys. Some think that it is blasphemy to wash a jersey while others think that it is totally disgusting to have a dirty and smelly jersey in their collection. These differences in collecting philosophies is one of the many things that make the hobby interesting and vibrant. If we all thought the same and collected similar pieces, things would be pretty boring and we would all be fighting over the same items.

I do not collect cards and think that collecting pieces of cardboard with a player's picture and a swath of his jersey attached is strange and very non-appealing to my tastes. On the other hand, many card collectors no doubt think that collecting game-used jerseys is unappealing and strange, not to mention that a number of my friends and family think that I am a bit eccentric in my fascination and ownership of clothing worn by grown men that I do not know. As mentioned by others in this thread, there are many card collectors - a lot more than collect game-used items - that find these pieces of expensive cardboard to be very collectible. The card companies know this and are merely feeding this desire.

Card companies cutting up game-used jerseys used to really bother me, but not so much anymore, especially when it comes to modern jerseys. With the proliferation of some NFL players wearing a new jersey each game - and some players in various sports sometimes wearing several jerseys in the same game - it all becomes somewhat meaningless to me. Another game, another jersey (or two) - YAWN (or maybe I should just sigh).

I am always a bit perplexed at how the card companies seem to receive the full blame for destroying the game-used jerseys while the teams, brokers, dealers, etc. who sell directly to the card companies seem to get a free pass. The same holds true with collectors pointing their (mainly middle) finger at the card companies for profiting off of this endeavor while completely ignoring their favorite team and/or dealer (a few who have frequented this Forum) who are also profiting off the deal. But why be angry at anyone? Last time I checked, it was not illegal to run a business and make a profit. (Full Disclosure: I have never sold a game-worn jersey to a card company, and I have never been employed, volunteered, owned stock in, or provided any type of service to a card company.)

My collecting interest is mainly in vintage jerseys because players back in those days usually only had a jersey and a spare. The jerseys actually show use - not just the one-game dirt and stains that have not been washed off of the jersey worn by Joe Superstar in last week's game (and who will be a distant memory in most cases 20 years down the road). Most of you may not care what I collect or even my opinion on this subject. But keep in mind that a number of people in this hobby really don't care what you think or collect, either, and 99.99% of the human race couldn't care less. Not trying to be the voice of negativity here or downplay anyone's collecting preferences - just giving a reality check

Enjoy collecting what you collect, and never mind what everyone else is doing - including the card companies - as there is nothing any of us game-used collectors can really do about it. It is nothing more than another party competing against you for something that you collect. Besides, how many of us can really afford a Brady jersey to begin with?

Happy New Year!

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange

ALWAYS LOOKING FOR WORLD FOOTBALL LEAGUE UNIFORMS

[jmeekins33]

Re: Panini Turns Tom Brady's 2013 AFC Championship Jersey Into Jersey Cards

I recently purchased a photomatched, Meigray sourced, game worn Pau Gasol Lakers jersey. Meanwhile, a Pau Gasol trading card numbered 1/1 featuring a chopped off NBA logo (with zero provenance) is 2.5X to 4X more expensive than my entire certified game worn jersey. Most card collectors have zero problem with this scenario.

[johnsontravis@ymail.com]

Re: Panini Turns Tom Brady's 2013 AFC Championship Jersey Into Jersey Cards

I get the craze to an extent. A sliver of something is way cheaper than a whole jersey. A Rodgers card is like $50 and an entire jersey is the price of a brand new car. So it has value in that sense. im not all about the excitement though. It is just such a tiny piece and I have seen many examples of how shady it is. Lots of questionable cards etc. I would rather have say a role players whole jersey than a questionable patch of a star player

[gorilla777]

Re: Panini Turns Tom Brady's 2013 AFC Championship Jersey Into Jersey Cards

I'm amazed at what a lot of these cards end up selling for...

[mad87man]

Re: Panini Turns Tom Brady's 2013 AFC Championship Jersey Into Jersey Cards

I'm glad I never got into the jersey / bat card craze. While I don't really have a problem with card companies doing it (unless its something very rare they are cutting up) I just don't see the satisfaction of owning a tiny sliver of something. A long time ago I did get an Eddie Murray bat card since he was my favorite player and it was cool for about 10 seconds then it was like 'that's it?" Later one of my friends who was a club house manager for the local AAA baseball team showed me his bat collection and he had an Eddie Murray one that was used by Chris Gwynn and I was able to barter that one off him. Much more satisfying owning the entire thing.

Its funny because i was the same way. I got a Jets jersey swatch and was like oh this is pretty cool. Then i discovered i can get a whole jersey and was like hell yeah this is better. i don't get the whole sliver thing. Yeah its a piece of jersey but its not like you can even tell what part of the jersey it even is.

[Buccaneer Madden]

Re: Panini Turns Tom Brady's 2013 AFC Championship Jersey Into Jersey Cards

I'm glad I never got into the jersey / bat card craze. While I don't really have a problem with card companies doing it (unless its something very rare they are cutting up) I just don't see the satisfaction of owning a tiny sliver of something. A long time ago I did get an Eddie Murray bat card since he was my favorite player and it was cool for about 10 seconds then it was like 'that's it?" Later one of my friends who was a club house manager for the local AAA baseball team showed me his bat collection and he had an Eddie Murray one that was used by Chris Gwynn and I was able to barter that one off him. Much more satisfying owning the entire thing.

[Jags Fan Dan]

Re: Panini Turns Tom Brady's 2013 AFC Championship Jersey Into Jersey Cards

How about a card collector owning a tiny piece of a T206 Honus Wagner card? The outcry from the card collecting population would be deafening. Cut up a Wagner Pirates GU jersey, however, and these same collectors would trample each other trying to find one.

Dave Miedema

That's a great idea. It would be pretty simple to mock up a card with a "piece" of a T206. I'd love to see how this card that depicts the destruction of a treasured card would be received on one of the cardboard forums. The irony would be delicious, like a complaint about the complaint box.

[sox83cubs84]

Re: Panini Turns Tom Brady's 2013 AFC Championship Jersey Into Jersey Cards

Full disclosure: I never understood the desire to own a stamp size piece of a jersey or bat that someone claims was from "this jersey" or "that player bat." It reeks of snake oil salesmen and bridges in Brooklyn for sale IMO. Card collectors like to say it makes them available to everyone, but the prices you see on eBay that collectors pay for these things is hardly that of the average fan.

I'm not claiming Panini is defrauding people, merely that I live in reality. UD was caught with fake autos. Major G/W dealers have been busted and jailed. Wordage is done in such a way that there is rarely even the defining statement that a jersey was worn a specific day or game. In fact, I always wonder if it's like NASCAR race winners. Post win, the entire team wears a ball cap from every major sponsor for a photo with the winning car. I feel like these cards are from players who pullover a team shirt for the "winning photo" then they become "player worn".

If common sense played a part in collecting, these cards would be our hobby's crown jewel. If a stamp size piece of a common players jersey is worth $10, surely a photomatched whole version would be worth at least 100x that, no? Hell, we could all retire and live off the equity of our three most valuable pieces!

I always wonder how a philatelist would respond to knowing they could own a 1/10 of an Inverted Jenny. How about a numismatist getting a shot at a piece of a 1893 S Morgan Silver Dollar? I'm betting that the fact it is impossible to really prove they were a part of the rare and valuable whole combined with the fact it's just a small part of a very valuable whole, makes them essentially noncollectable in those hobbies. Just Saying...

How about a card collector owning a tiny piece of a T206 Honus Wagner card? The outcry from the card collecting population would be deafening. Cut up a Wagner Pirates GU jersey, however, and these same collectors would trample each other trying to find one.

Dave Miedema

[gingi79]

Re: Panini Turns Tom Brady's 2013 AFC Championship Jersey Into Jersey Cards

Full disclosure: I never understood the desire to own a stamp size piece of a jersey or bat that someone claims was from "this jersey" or "that player bat." It reeks of snake oil salesmen and bridges in Brooklyn for sale IMO. Card collectors like to say it makes them available to everyone, but the prices you see on eBay that collectors pay for these things is hardly that of the average fan.

I'm not claiming Panini is defrauding people, merely that I live in reality. UD was caught with fake autos. Major G/W dealers have been busted and jailed. Wordage is done in such a way that there is rarely even the defining statement that a jersey was worn a specific day or game. In fact, I always wonder if it's like NASCAR race winners. Post win, the entire team wears a ball cap from every major sponsor for a photo with the winning car. I feel like these cards are from players who pullover a team shirt for the "winning photo" then they become "player worn".

If common sense played a part in collecting, these cards would be our hobby's crown jewel. If a stamp size piece of a common players jersey is worth $10, surely a photomatched whole version would be worth at least 100x that, no? Hell, we could all retire and live off the equity of our three most valuable pieces!

I always wonder how a philatelist would respond to knowing they could own a 1/10 of an Inverted Jenny. How about a numismatist getting a shot at a piece of a 1893 S Morgan Silver Dollar? I'm betting that the fact it is impossible to really prove they were a part of the rare and valuable whole combined with the fact it's just a small part of a very valuable whole, makes them essentially noncollectable in those hobbies. Just Saying...

[mad87man]

Re: Panini Turns Tom Brady's 2013 AFC Championship Jersey Into Jersey Cards

yes i believe so its just a different division of the company