Who's the tailor????

[EndzoneSports]

Re: Who's the tailor????

It was brought to my attention that, the manner in which my previous post was worded could be taken to imply some ill intent on the part of the jersey's owner. I wanted to publiclly clear the air to state that this was absolutely not my intent. Having seemingly been procured through legitimate channels, I was only pointing out to the community that such items being available could likely lead to similar items being misrepresented by someone who had less than honest intent. I certainly did not want to seem as if I was implying that this was the intent in this specific case. If it in anyway came across in that manner, I sincerely apologize to any and all concerned.

Sincerely,

[34swtns]

Re: Who's the tailor????

Nice jersey. Nice flooring too.

Oh wait........... they're both mine.

I suppose it would be a matter of concern if that jersey were ever offered as "game used" but as long as it's in my posession it never will be.
Bet on it.
It's final resting place will most likely be the living room wall of a friend of mine and my wife's who's a big Denver fan.
And I have been known to have a "rough and tumble session in the back yard" before but I can guarantee you a sports jersey wasn't a part of the equation.

[EndzoneSports]

Re: Who's the tailor????

My theory is that a lot of the new nfl jerseys we are seeing at auction are game cut jerseys obtained from reebok. I have a theory on how, but cann't post it because i need to connect a few dots.

These game cut jerseys don't have the proper customizations or the patches added by the teams. Sometimes they are without nameplates.

That's how you see things like a customized Shaun Alexander with wear but the wrong nameplate or a blue Eli Manning from 2004 missing the 80th anniversary patch.

Eric

Here's a bit of fuel to be added to the fire in support of this theory. In a recently received e-mail, an individual states...

"Recently a friend of mine visited the Ripon factory in Berlin, WI and got for me a 2002 season Al Wilson away jersey.... From what I understand, teams apparently return excess jerseys to Ripon, some used and some unused, for whatever reason(s). I have examples of practice jerseys as well as game jerseys from Ripon..... It has no signs of game use whatsoever."

The 'Outlet Store' page of Ripon's web site states, "All manufactures are left with an assortment of products that are remnants of the sales and production process. Our store offers a variety of these factory seconds as well as products made from discontinued fabric and from short roll ends of fabric."

The only visible/possible detractors are the absence of the manufacturer's Reebok tail tagging, and possibly the sizing (of the 6 tracked sales of Wilson's jerseys from 2001 through 2006, two, which were both 2003s, were of known sizing--48). While a jersey such as this would cause some concern if offered as "game-used" due to the tagging issue and lack of wear, is it possible that some of these factory seconds are offered with all tagging intact? If so, we all know how easy it is to approximate evidence of "light game wear" through a rough-and-tumble session in the back yard and a few excursions through the laundry cycle.

In addition to the confusion added by the "game-issued" and "team-issued" offerings that are so prevalent, do we now need to add a "manufacturer-issued" category to further pollute matters?

Regards,

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: Who's the tailor????

The various replica NFL jerseys in the photos on their site are easily distinguishable from gamers.

What about BLANK team issued jerseys, where nameplates and numbers from "authentic replicas" are added? Most of these companies will sew anything, if the materials are supplied.
Does anyone think that this is the problem with the hoard of bogus NFL gamers on the market?

[G1X]

Re: Who's the tailor????

Greg,

Referring back to your post #9, I understand what Eric is saying. My comment referred to the several posts previous to mine as the dialogue seemed to be specifically referencing the Seahawks' Shaun Alexander jersey on Exclusive Pro's website. The various replica NFL jerseys in the photos on their site are easily distinguishable from gamers.

On another issue that is very similar, if collectors think that there are issues with manipulating football jerseys, rest assured that it is nothing compared to what dishonest folks can do with football helmets!

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange

[otismalibu]

Re: Who's the tailor????

EPS does all the work on site. They have a big factory.

I know. I've had a couple of jerseys done by them.

The last time I talked to Josh, I asked him if he could just mail me the nameplate & name for my jersey, because I didn't want to wait for 3 weeks. I seem to recall him saying that he could, but then I wouldn't be guaranteed a perfect match between my white jersey and my white nameplate. I opted for them to do it.

My point was simply that someone could get the materials for a fake gamer, w/o tipping their hand to the custom shop.

EPS is a legit business that does quality work.

If someone really wants to fake a jersey, they can always order some twill and see how steady their hand is. Some old yearbooks, a cheap scanner and a good pair of scissors and it ain't hard to match numbers and names. Obviously, some of the newer style numbers would be tougher. Here's one I did, on a blank Sand-Knit retail jersey.

[TNTtoys]

Re: Who's the tailor????

Can't recall if EPS does it or not, but I know some places will just ship you the nameplate and you're responsible for having it sewn on.

I used to see number kits for sale on eBay as well.

EPS does all the work on site. They have a big factory.

I sent them 2 jerseys last year -- I wanted an alterate purple D-backs jersey customized with those fancy copper letters & numbers -- wound up doing a #20 / Gonzalez. The market was running dry with these, having been out of circulation for a couple of years. I also had them do up a current style Devil Rays jersey with #63 / Morris because I love the movie "The Rookie"... Again, fantastic. My brother in law used their services to do a #99 / Vaughn Indians jersey. We wear our "movie" jerseys to family parties, etc. For us, it's entertainment... it's fun. It's a couple of guys who are passionate about all things baseball and want to wear something representing our favorite pastime. This to me is the role of the customizer for the average joe...

And the market broadens with the wide variety of jerseys out there -- for example... suppose you are a size 40 and want to wear a retail authentic jersey of John Olerud from 1997. You probably will not find such a jersey anywhere... but could you find a black retail Mets jersey from this era? Most definitely. Can you then send this jersey out to have a name and number put on? Again, most definitely. You have the ability as a fan to wear your favorite player from any era.

Lettering kits are still all over ebay... I would tend to think that these are for the guy who has the authentic who doesn't want to pay the price of shipping his jerseys to and from a lettering shop and could get the job done by a local tailor on the cheap... or maybe he could even do the work himself. Again, the lettering kits are just products that the shops are licensed to sell... it's a shady intent of the buyer that is the real issue.

I have not come across shops who will just ship a nameplate and wash their hands of the transaction from there. I'm guessing that they lose a lot of business by doing this... or they do so much business that they don't need the extra.

[otismalibu]

Re: Who's the tailor????

Can't recall if EPS does it or not, but I know some places will just ship you the nameplate and you're responsible for having it sewn on.

I used to see number kits for sale on eBay as well.

[Utopian2630]

Re: Who's the tailor????

I saw Exclusive Pro mentioned in an earlier post. I have used them before, and they do excellent work customizing jerseys... their business is mainly to do lettering and numbering on team jerseys, and they do some serious volume. They also put favorite player letters and numbers on blank authentic jerseys for fans or stores that sell customized (or personalized) player jerseys... this is where I have used their services. True they are 1 of many that do this service, but they are licensed to by MLB, NHL, etc. to do this. I don't see anything here that is out of the ordinary.
Where I see the line crossed is when someone submits a jersey to them (or another company that performs the similar service) for the purpose of passing off as a game worn jersey. This person has intent to commit a crime by using an unknowing participant. This person also would probably have doctored up strip tags, flag tags, and other team identifying factors that a lettering and numbering company couldn't possibly do. And of course, they probably "add" game wear to the jersey later as well (unless they are selling the jersey as team issued to that player).
I would not put this issue on the letter and number guy, as they are in business to perform a service and are licensed by all of the proper authrities to do so.

I agree with TNT Toys. These places aren't really to blame, its the un-ethical people who try to pass this garbage off around the hobby. I know if/when those 'old stock' Steelers jerseys come around again, I'd probably like to buy one just to wear on gameday...not try unload as a game-worn jersey. Do you think that if someone shipped a dozen blank Colts 'game-cut jerseys' to a pro shop they'd refuse to put a dozen number 18's on them? I don't think we should fault the pro shops from doing quality work but maybe question these blanks and see where they end up.

[TNTtoys]

Re: Who's the tailor????

I saw Exclusive Pro mentioned in an earlier post. I have used them before, and they do excellent work customizing jerseys... their business is mainly to do lettering and numbering on team jerseys, and they do some serious volume. They also put favorite player letters and numbers on blank authentic jerseys for fans or stores that sell customized (or personalized) player jerseys... this is where I have used their services. True they are 1 of many that do this service, but they are licensed to by MLB, NHL, etc. to do this. I don't see anything here that is out of the ordinary.
Where I see the line crossed is when someone submits a jersey to them (or another company that performs the similar service) for the purpose of passing off as a game worn jersey. This person has intent to commit a crime by using an unknowing participant. This person also would probably have doctored up strip tags, flag tags, and other team identifying factors that a lettering and numbering company couldn't possibly do. And of course, they probably "add" game wear to the jersey later as well (unless they are selling the jersey as team issued to that player).
I would not put this issue on the letter and number guy, as they are in business to perform a service and are licensed by all of the proper authrities to do so.

[Eric]

Re: Who's the tailor????

So close but yet so far!!!! You would think on the Manning jersey you could find an 80th anniversary patch to really fake it up right!

Perhaps someone will....

[allstarsplus]

Re: Who's the tailor????

you see things like a customized Shaun Alexander with wear but the wrong nameplate or a blue Eli Manning from 2004 missing the 80th anniversary patch.

Eric

So close but yet so far!!!! You would think on the Manning jersey you could find an 80th anniversary patch to really fake it up right!

[Eric]

Re: Who's the tailor????

My theory is that a lot of the new nfl jerseys we are seeing at auction are game cut jerseys obtained from reebok. I have a theory on how, but cann't post it because i need to connect a few dots.

These game cut jerseys don't have the proper customizations or the patches added by the teams. Sometimes they are without nameplates.

That's how you see things like a customized Shaun Alexander with wear but the wrong nameplate or a blue Eli Manning from 2004 missing the 80th anniversary patch.

Eric

[otismalibu]

Re: Who's the tailor????

Mark,

I think Eric was talking about game jerseys that have been customized. If I sent EPS a blank team issued NFL jersey, I bet it would come back looking pretty good. Then I might take a few dives in the backyard to add a little "game use".

[G1X]

Re: Who's the tailor????

Gentlemen,

In observing the photos of the jerseys on the website mentioned in the previous posts, I don't see how a collector of game-used football jerseys would think that these jerseys were ever anywhere near an NFL equipment room. They are nice-looking replicas, but are not cut like gamers.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange