Ethical question for collectors

[whatupyos]

Re: Ethical question for collectors

HAHAHA good one!!!!

[godwulf]

Re: Ethical question for collectors

It's part of the hobby...it's how and where many game used items are obtained. Yes, would be much better if things weren't obtained this way, but it's part of the hobby.

Sure it is...just like a runner slapping the ball out of the hand of the fielder covering First is part of the Game.

[3arod13]

Re: Ethical question for collectors

Tony-

It's a bit hard to believe that you would be willing to commit a felony, in order to simply add an A-Rod broken bat, wrist band or jock strap to your memorabilia collection!

In case you need any further clairification about the crime at hand, please see the information below.

What is the crime involving receiving stolen property?Receiving stolen goods is generally buying or acquiring the possession of property knowing (or believing in some jurisdictions) that it had been obtained through theft, embezzlement, larceny, or extortion by someone else. The crime is separate from the crime of stealing the property. To be convicted, the receiver must know the goods were stolen at the time he receives them and had the intent to aid the thief. Paying for the goods or intending to collect the reward for returning them are not defenses. Depending on the value of the property received, receiving-stolen-property is either a misdemeanor or a felony.

There are numerous federal laws that make it a federal crime to receive stolen property (e.g., vehicles, securities) if the property received was or had been in interstate commerce.

Unless you enjoy wearing black and white pinstripes (and not those of the White Sox), and find sleeping on a metal bunk enjoyable, I suggest you possibly re-think your collecting strategy.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

Ok, I'm done with this thread. Getting a little too ridiculous to me. It's part of the hobby...it's how and where many game used items are obtained. Yes, would be much better if things weren't obtained this way, but it's part of the hobby. Don't have to agree, but it's reality!

[hblakewolf]

Re: Ethical question for collectors

I believe there are many of us who probably have game used items in our collections that we bought and were most likely stolen. Again, unless given to you by the player, how do you know it wasn't stolen.

Buying an item that you find out later was stolen is one thing. Buying an item you know is stolen is another.

I can honestly say that if someone offerred me an Alex Rodriguez Game Used item that was stolen from him (not stolen from someones collection) with solid proof, I wouldn't hesitate to buy it.

Regards, Tony

Tony-

It's a bit hard to believe that you would be willing to commit a felony, in order to simply add an A-Rod broken bat, wrist band or jock strap to your memorabilia collection!

In case you need any further clairification about the crime at hand, please see the information below.

What is the crime involving receiving stolen property?Receiving stolen goods is generally buying or acquiring the possession of property knowing (or believing in some jurisdictions) that it had been obtained through theft, embezzlement, larceny, or extortion by someone else. The crime is separate from the crime of stealing the property. To be convicted, the receiver must know the goods were stolen at the time he receives them and had the intent to aid the thief. Paying for the goods or intending to collect the reward for returning them are not defenses. Depending on the value of the property received, receiving-stolen-property is either a misdemeanor or a felony.

There are numerous federal laws that make it a federal crime to receive stolen property (e.g., vehicles, securities) if the property received was or had been in interstate commerce.

Unless you enjoy wearing black and white pinstripes (and not those of the White Sox), and find sleeping on a metal bunk enjoyable, I suggest you possibly re-think your collecting strategy.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[3arod13]

Re: Ethical question for collectors

That is a bizarre statement!!!

Here is the definition I found for stealing.

stealplay_w("S0725700") (stl)
v. stole (stl), sto·len (stln), steal·ing, steals
v.tr. 1. To take (the property of another) without right or permission.

How is it o.k. to knowingly take/purchase (without right or permission from ARod) something that is his.

too much is being read into this. It's part of the hobby. This is how many game used items are obtained.

[ahuff]

Re: Ethical question for collectors

I believe there are many of us who probably have game used items in our collections that we bought and were most likely stolen. Again, unless given to you by the player, how do you know it wasn't stolen. That is probably a fair statement. I would say other safer sources would be purchasing from the team or a charity.

Buying an item that you find out later was stolen is one thing. I completely agree. Buying an item you know is stolen is another. I'm not sure what policy is, but law enforcement might see it this way as well.

I can honestly say that if someone offerred me an Alex Rodriguez Game Used item that was stolen from him (not stolen from someones collection) with solid proof, I wouldn't hesitate to buy it. What did you include the previous paragraph for. This seems to be a complete contradiction for what you just said. When is it alright to steal or knowingly purchase stolen goods.

Regards, Tony

That is a bizarre statement!!!

Here is the definition I found for stealing.

stealplay_w("S0725700") (stl)
v. stole (stl), sto·len (stln), steal·ing, steals
v.tr. 1. To take (the property of another) without right or permission.

How is it o.k. to knowingly take/purchase (without right or permission from ARod) something that is his.

[3arod13]

Re: Ethical question for collectors

Remember this story?

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2002/...ben020312.html

Yes, but this is talking about a player on a team stealing from another player.

Do you honestly believe that most game used items out there being sold were handed over by the players themselves? Many items are obtained from other sources, without the players knowledge. It's has been and is just part of the hobby. Heck, even some of the stuff players sign today as game used is questionable.

[Vintagedeputy]

Re: Ethical question for collectors

Remember this story?

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2002/03/12/ruben020312.html

[3arod13]

Re: Ethical question for collectors

I believe there are many of us who probably have game used items in our collections that we bought and were most likely stolen. Again, unless given to you by the player, how do you know it wasn't stolen.

Buying an item that you find out later was stolen is one thing. Buying an item you know is stolen is another.

I can honestly say that if someone offerred me an Alex Rodriguez Game Used item that was stolen from him (not stolen from someones collection) with solid proof, I wouldn't hesitate to buy it.

Regards, Tony

[cohibasmoker]

Re: Ethical question for collectors

Hi Guys,

I’d like to make two points on this issue.

First, just because a person says an item is stolen doesn’t make it stolen. For an item to be legally stolen, it must be reported as stolen to law-enforcement who would then place the “stolen article” into the NCIC system.

Then,

If the “stolen article” is located, any law-enforcement officer can legally seize the article and it would be up to the law-enforcement agencies involved as to whether or not criminal charges would be lodged against the person in possession of the “stolen article”.

Personally, if someone told me that an item was stolen, there is no-way I would buy it both for ethical reasons and legal reasons.

Jim

[34swtns]

Re: Ethical question for collectors

Yeah, I agree with the previous poster who says he can't take "the higher ground" on this one. Face it, all you holier-than-thou's, you probably ALL have something in your collection that was pilfered. I, personally, wouldn't seek out stolen items but at the same time, "what I don't know, won't hurt me" either. I'm far from being a fence for stolen goods, however I collect the jerseys of a certain southern football team who, it's common knowledge, had the vast majority of their gamers from the late 90's sold out the back door by someone in their organization. Everyone who collects NFL jerseys knows this. Does it stop me from buying them when they come my way? Not a chance. Does it bother me to know I own these items? See previous answer. But this is an example of "everybody's doing it, so these get a pass" whereas if I were offered a unique item and the seller told me up front that it was probably stolen I'd have to say "no thanks". And not because I'm riding around on some big moral "high horse" but simply for the fact of, "how are you ever going to re-sell it"? You buy something that's stolen and you're potentially stuck with it, indefinitely, and I don't buy things with the intention of taking them to my grave, that's ridiculous. Everything is eventually re-sold and you have to have the ability to resell. If an item is stolen, it would be tough to pass along without incriminating yourself.
So, while I'm certainly not advocating purchasing stolen property, I am saying to some of you, don't get all flustered and judgemental about it at the rest of us' expense. You've most likely got some questionable items in your collection, whether you know it or not. What did Slick Willie say? "Don't ask, don't tell"?
My 2 pesos.

[3arod13]

Re: Ethical question for collectors

Or, what do you do when you find out--after the fact--something you've purchased was stolen?

I recently purchased a Game Used item that was sold through LeLands Auction. I sent the item to Steiner Sports to have the player sign the item. However, the player wouldn't sign the item because he said the item was stolen from his locker while in the minor leagues.

I had no knowledge at the time I purchased the item that it was stolen from the players locker. However, after the fact, and although I wish it wasn't an item stolen from the players locker, I am very satisifed with my purchase, especially now with confirmation from the player himself that the item was his and stolen from his locker.

I will say that if the player expressed he wanted the item back, I would have worked out something with him in order to do so.

Regards, Tony

[Birdbats]

Re: Ethical question for collectors

Correct me if I'm wrong Jeff, but don't the players buy their bats, not the team? I heard the players buy their bats, thats why some players switched when the prices' of SAM bats went up.

Very few players buy their own bats. Some of the marketing-savvy superstars buy their own and then sell them (after use or just signed), but most players have their bats purchased by the team. Bonds is one who buys his own and had a problem with Sam Bat's price increase. If anyone else switched, it could be because their team chose to purchase bats from other manufacturers.

[whatupyos]

Re: Ethical question for collectors

Correct me if I'm wrong Jeff, but don't the players buy their bats, not the team? I heard the players buy their bats, thats why some players switched when the prices' of SAM bats went up.

Aaron

[10thMan]

Re: Ethical question for collectors

I would not want an item if I knew it was stolen. Not for any price, it`s just not worth it to me anyway. This does make me wonder though, buying from the public etc...Maybe that`s why some players get upset when you bring them a nice used Bat etc...I dont know what`s worse, STOLEN or "DOCTORED" Equip.???
Sean