2009 HOF Class

[AWA85]

Re: 2009 HOF Class

Say what you want about the DH, it has been around since 74 and differentiates itself from the NL that way. I hate watching a pitcher bat, it's just one of those controversial subjects.

We must agree to disagree, I love watching Bronson Arroyo jack one out on the Cubs!

[skyking26]

Re: 2009 HOF Class

DH is a joke. Some of these guys would be retired if they were not playing DH. Would that you could remove the DH numbers from that person's stats, because it's not a true position and it's bad for the game of baseball. Bagwell did the right thing by walking away from the game and retiring as an Astro than he would have done for an AL team as DH.

Say what you want about the DH, it has been around since 74 and differentiates itself from the NL that way. I hate watching a pitcher bat, it's just one of those controversial subjects.

[jonincleve]

Re: 2009 HOF Class

i am curious...why do you think thurman munson has never been elected to hall of fame? he basically played 10 seasons, was an all-star for 6, won an mvp award, has the post season accomplishments. he was dominant at his position for the time he played. he died at age 32, he still had at least 4-5 good years left. addie joss only played 9 years when he died but he is in the hof. sandy koufax played 12 years and out of the 12 he had 6 good years and he is in the hof. growing up a cleveland indians fan i hate the yankees, but i just do not get that one.

take care
john

[sylbry]

Re: 2009 HOF Class

The problem with Bagwell is he played his entire career in the steriod era and yet didn't accomplish big numbers in comparison to others. If Fred McGriff can't get in, Bagwell certainly won't.

This story won't help. Even if it is untrue it places the suggestion in people's minds that he used. And he certainly does look the part, big arms and all.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2008/05/24/2008-05-24_sources_kelly_blair_made_boasts_about_ju.html

And for the conspiracy theorists there is this story. Keep in mind it was written as a satire piece.

http://baseballevolution.com/asher/bagwellconspiracy.html

[AWA85]

Re: 2009 HOF Class

That's true, but I just don't understand why certain arbitrary milestones mean so much in the game of baseball. In the prime of his career, Bagwell compares to any of the other people you're talking about.

Baseball is all about numbers, unlike other sports there are just certain records and milestones people know. 3,000 hits, 300 wins, 500 home runs.... certain numbers stand out to people because baseball is numbers (pete rose hits, hank aarons home runs, Cal ripkens games played and on and on)

[ndevlin]

Re: 2009 HOF Class

Les, I kinda see your point.

But lets say Bagwell gets in. Then would you feel someone like Juan Gonzalez that has similar numbers should get in? Or how about Dave Kingman, McGriff or Delgado?

[frikativ54]

Re: 2009 HOF Class

Frik, I know we all feel strongly about certain players... but didn't Bagwell walk away from the game because of health? If I remember he left in his late 30's and his numbers were beginning to fall?

That's true, but I just don't understand why certain arbitrary milestones mean so much in the game of baseball. In the prime of his career, Bagwell compares to any of the other people you're talking about.

[ndevlin]

Re: 2009 HOF Class

.......health trouble that is.

[ndevlin]

Re: 2009 HOF Class

DH is a joke. Some of these guys would be retired if they were not playing DH. Would that you could remove the DH numbers from that person's stats, because it's not a true position and it's bad for the game of baseball. Bagwell did the right thing by walking away from the game and retiring as an Astro than he would have done for an AL team as DH.

I dont even think Bagwell could have played DH. He was having trouble at the plate and was time to go. So I dont think DH was an option.

[AWA85]

Re: 2009 HOF Class

DH is a joke. Some of these guys would be retired if they were not playing DH. Would that you could remove the DH numbers from that person's stats, because it's not a true position and it's bad for the game of baseball. Bagwell did the right thing by walking away from the game and retiring as an Astro than he would have done for an AL team as DH.

Frik, I know we all feel strongly about certain players... but didn't Bagwell walk away from the game because of health? If I remember he left in his late 30's and his numbers were beginning to fall?

[frikativ54]

Re: 2009 HOF Class

Larkin has no chance of getting, Im sorry guys.

You really cant compare Bagwell with Thome. The fact is, when people get older, they move to DH. Thome is still playing, Bagwell is not. Thome is still hitting 30+ HR's every year. Bagwell was done in 2005?, not playing? Thome is still playing having decent numbers, DH or not. Its not like hes played DH his whole career. David Ortiz on the other hand, will have no chance because he only plays DH.

I loved Bagwell, but just no chance. If you put him in, why not Juan Roidzalez? He was a good defender too with good homerun power. Very compariable to Bagwell.

DH is a joke. Some of these guys would be retired if they were not playing DH. Would that you could remove the DH numbers from that person's stats, because it's not a true position and it's bad for the game of baseball. Bagwell did the right thing by walking away from the game and retiring as an Astro than he would have done for an AL team as DH.

[ndevlin]

Re: 2009 HOF Class

Nate- i may be showing some bias, but what makes you think Larkin has no chance?

Haha, I know, I know. I guess I shouldnt say he doesnt have a chance. More like I personally dont believe he will get in.

Dont get me wrong, I really liked Larkin. I thought he was a good player, but not great. He just wasnt a player that gave me that spark when he was on the field.

I also know sometimes people have a different take on players when they watched them growing up, or were able to see them play live in their area. It kind of gives you a different aspect to the player.

Its hit and miss with the HOF. Some players arent worthy of it and get in, some are and get crapped on.

[Nathan]

Re: 2009 HOF Class

one Thought We All Have To Keep In Mind Here - The Hof Is Supposed To Be About Greatness. The Top Of The Crop. A System Of Election By Guys That Never Played The Game On A Professional Level (sportswriters) Is Somewhat Strange To Begin With.... Their Association Is That They "wrote About It......."

Oddly enough, the BBWAA has only made two egregiously bad choices: Catfish Hunter and Jim Rice.

The Veterans Committee, on the other hand....

[AWA85]

Re: 2009 HOF Class

Larkin has no chance of getting, Im sorry guys.

You really cant compare Bagwell with Thome. The fact is, when people get older, they move to DH. Thome is still playing, Bagwell is not. Thome is still hitting 30+ HR's every year. Bagwell was done in 2005?, not playing? Thome is still playing having decent numbers, DH or not. Its not like hes played DH his whole career. David Ortiz on the other hand, will have no chance because he only plays DH.

I loved Bagwell, but just no chance. If you put him in, why not Juan Roidzalez? He was a good defender too with good homerun power. Very compariable to Bagwell.

Nate- i may be showing some bias, but what makes you think Larkin has no chance?

[ndevlin]

Re: 2009 HOF Class

Larkin has no chance of getting, Im sorry guys.

You really cant compare Bagwell with Thome. The fact is, when people get older, they move to DH. Thome is still playing, Bagwell is not. Thome is still hitting 30+ HR's every year. Bagwell was done in 2005?, not playing? Thome is still playing having decent numbers, DH or not. Its not like hes played DH his whole career. David Ortiz on the other hand, will have no chance because he only plays DH.

I loved Bagwell, but just no chance. If you put him in, why not Juan Roidzalez? He was a good defender too with good homerun power. Very compariable to Bagwell.