Rank difficulty of authenticating GU items

[LWMM]

Re: Rank difficulty of authenticating GU items

The one problem I see with the list is what people are really going to take the time to doctor or fake use, I mean is anyone really going to bother faking use of a wristband, pants, or hat. I mean if someone is doing something like that, they're going to do a jersey, bat, or fielding glove most of the time.

I disagree for two reasons. The first is that even though hats, wristbands and the like do not sell for much compared to other items, they are still extremely easy to fake with little effort. Some wristbands could simply be bought new, thrown in along with the laundry a few times and then put on eBay with a description stating that the player tossed them into the stands. Meanwhile, a hat could be bought at any of thousands of places and worn for half a year, before writing a number under the brim in sharpie and putting it up for bid. Neither case involves a lot of investment, and in the latter case especially could just be seen as a cheap way to get a new cap every once in a while.

I think that pants are fairly low on my list, by the way, and have only three items (jerseys, fielding gloves and bats) below them.

The second is that such items really have nothing to identify themselves other than provenance. Ideally (though certainly not the case as it is), if handed an item with no documents or accounts one would be able to identify who wore it and whether it was authentic (at least to the point of game issued). This is only possible for items like jerseys, fielding gloves and bats, necessitating a huge reliance on largely unvetted documentation. I'm definitely not saying that jerseys etc. are easy to authenticate; however, if handed a random jersey and wristband, which would be easier to

In my opinion the hardest to authenticate is a fielding glove. The question, like you said is whether it was issued and then was doctored. I really don't know how you can know for sure unless you photomatch the glove or get it from a very reliable source. Jerseys are also very lucrative for this, but loose threads and dirt stains make it easier to photomatch than a glove. My two cents, Ricardo

I consider fielding gloves to be fairly low on the list, because they by and large avoid the initial question of whether they are fake. You definitely have a point, however, in that jerseys are easier to photomatch. In my list, my reasoning for placing gloves below jerseys is because they're harder to photomatch, but harder to fake. I'm not sure how to weigh those two things, nor to I think that there is likely a clear cut answer. All the same, doctoring a fielding glove also means breaking it in, which is no small feat and takes lots of time and patience. Doctoring a jersey means putting it on and running outside for a few minutes.

[spartakid]

Re: Rank difficulty of authenticating GU items

1 Hat---exact same available for anybody to purchase, and they usually only have a number under the brim.

2 Wristband---usually have a number, but little else to identify them.

3 Batting Glove---usually have the name and number, but not much else. Mind you, I don't remember having seen a fake one, either...

4 Cleats---Hard to fake, and they usually have distinct dirt and grass stains on them. That said, they are hard to photomatch.

5 Helmet---I'd put this before shoes, except that they can often be photomatched, due to the location of the stickers and use (pine tar, marks, etc.) All the same you can't "photo unmatch" an item, so it can be hard to disprove a good fake.

6 Pants---They usually have a name on the waistband (and year info, if you're lucky), but little else. I would imagine that it would be hard to figure out a particular player's size, too, leaving unmarked ones hard to narrow down.

7 Jersey---One usually know's what player the jersey is of, but just look at the number of "is it real?" threads here.

8 Fielding glove---They almost always have a name stitched into them, leaving the question of "game issued or game used?" Considering that they are worn for a long time, however, with luck they can be photomatched (provided one can find pictures in the first place...) They're not the easiest to authenticate, but far from the easist to fake.

9 Bat---usually have the player's name, number on the ends, manufacturing information and use. The latter is particularly hard to be faked, as major leaguers tend to hit the balls just a little bit harder than others, leaving distinctive lace marks.


And if your name is Lou Lampson, they're all equally hard to authenticate.

The one problem I see with the list is what people are really going to take the time to doctor or fake use, I mean is anyone really going to bother faking use of a wristband, pants, or hat. I mean if someone is doing something like that, they're going to do a jersey, bat, or fielding glove most of the time. In my opinion the hardest to authenticate is a fielding glove. The question, like you said is whether it was issued and then was doctored. I really don't know how you can know for sure unless you photomatch the glove or get it from a very reliable source. Jerseys are also very lucrative for this, but loose threads and dirt stains make it easier to photomatch than a glove. My two cents, Ricardo

[LWMM]

Re: Rank difficulty of authenticating GU items

Was wondering if you could rank the following GU item in order of difficulty of authenticating as Game used.

Fielding Glove
Jersey

1 Hat---exact same available for anybody to purchase, and they usually only have a number under the brim.

2 Wristband---usually have a number, but little else to identify them.

3 Batting Glove---usually have the name and number, but not much else. Mind you, I don't remember having seen a fake one, either...

4 Cleats---Hard to fake, and they usually have distinct dirt and grass stains on them. That said, they are hard to photomatch.

5 Helmet---I'd put this before shoes, except that they can often be photomatched, due to the location of the stickers and use (pine tar, marks, etc.) All the same you can't "photo unmatch" an item, so it can be hard to disprove a good fake.

6 Pants---They usually have a name on the waistband (and year info, if you're lucky), but little else. I would imagine that it would be hard to figure out a particular player's size, too, leaving unmarked ones hard to narrow down.

7 Jersey---One usually know's what player the jersey is of, but just look at the number of "is it real?" threads here.

8 Fielding glove---They almost always have a name stitched into them, leaving the question of "game issued or game used?" Considering that they are worn for a long time, however, with luck they can be photomatched (provided one can find pictures in the first place...) They're not the easiest to authenticate, but far from the easist to fake.

9 Bat---usually have the player's name, number on the ends, manufacturing information and use. The latter is particularly hard to be faked, as major leaguers tend to hit the balls just a little bit harder than others, leaving distinctive lace marks.


And if your name is Lou Lampson, they're all equally hard to authenticate.

[joelsabi]

Re: Rank difficulty of authenticating GU items

Was wondering if you could rank the following GU item in order of difficulty of authenticating as Game used.

Fielding Glove
Bat
Batting Glove
Hat
Jersey
Helmet
Cleats
Pants
Wristband

would like to start this up again and get more opinions. Rudy, among others, I would appreciate your opionion.

[frikativ54]

Re: Rank difficulty of authenticating GU items

team photographers are a good source I will see what I can do.

That is absolutely wonderful. Even if Bagwell used it for a game or two, then I would like to know. It was a 1999-2001 era glove. Email me, and I can send you more information. It was a tan glove, with light oil and a bit of dirt. It does look like someone used it for a little while, but it definitely did not take the pounding that heavily game used gloves do.

[1986&2004Bosox]

Re: Rank difficulty of authenticating GU items

team photographers are a good source I will see what I can do.

[frikativ54]

Re: Rank difficulty of authenticating GU items

pocket of the glove, length of laces, scrapes from making diving plays etc. Trust me you can photo match gloves. You can most likely even match up your bagwell glove

Even though my Bagwell glove was most likely a backup glove? I can't find any pics of Bagwell using that glove. If you could help me out, I would be eternally grateful.

[1986&2004Bosox]

Re: Rank difficulty of authenticating GU items

pocket of the glove, length of laces, scrapes from making diving plays etc. Trust me you can photo match gloves. You can most likely even match up your bagwell glove

[frikativ54]

Re: Rank difficulty of authenticating GU items

I would totally disagree with you. You can tell MLB use from non MLB use and pics of gloves are very distinctive. Getty images is a great source.

Can you give me examples of what you are talking about? Pics would help.

Thanks!

[1986&2004Bosox]

Re: Rank difficulty of authenticating GU items

I would totally disagree with you. You can tell MLB use from non MLB use and pics of gloves are very distinctive. Getty images is a great source.

[frikativ54]

Re: Rank difficulty of authenticating GU items

8 Fielding Glove again use, scuff marks, placement of numbers or stitched name all easily photo matchable.

I would have to disagree about fielder's gloves. Yes - you can style match the stitching, but that doesn't prove that a player used that identical mitt. Many players give their game-issued gloves to friends, who in turn beat them up at the local ballyard, and then sell them as game-used. That's why you need to be really leery of any glove, unless it comes from a trusted source or the player himself. I would collect more gloves, but they are just so hard to authenticate.

[grenda12]

Re: Rank difficulty of authenticating GU items

Interesting to know. Thanks!

[1986&2004Bosox]

Re: Rank difficulty of authenticating GU items

1 Hat almost impossible unless great use for modern ones as EXACT SAME hats are sold to the public. Vintage are easier as names were sometimes but not always stitched in.

2 Wristband so many different players wear the same style bands and even with numbers on them really hard.

3 Batting Glove a little easier than wrist bands, as some modern gloves feature # and player name. Vintage batting gloves almost impossible.

4 Pants difficult unless good use, stains or tears but most pants have year tags so they like jerseys can at least be attributed to game issued.


5 Jersey see above reasons for jersey


6 Helmet's yes they make replicas and yes just like any other item there are people who will attempt to fake them however Most helmets have very distinct marks/use which are photo matchable.

7 Cleats use on cleats should be very noticeable they get abused with dirt, grass and should be easily matched.

8 Fielding Glove again use, scuff marks, placement of numbers or stitched name all easily photo matchable.


9 Bat video photos you name it a bats traits are unmistakable .

[joelsabi]

Was wondering if you could rank the following GU item in order of difficulty of authenticating as Game used.

Fielding Glove
Bat
Batting Glove
Hat
Jersey
Helmet
Cleats
Pants
Wristband