O/T - Why is Barry Larkin exempt from Roid talk?

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  • David
    replied
    Re: O/T - Why is Barry Larkin exempt from Roid talk?

    I give players who pressed the union for testing and penalties due credit. Rick Helling is one who in union meetings for stood up against PEDs yearly and from early on. I do not lump Helling, for one, with players who voted down testing and drug penalties. Sadly, Helling's ideas were dismissed by the union executives and not supported by the vast majority of players. Duly note that union agreements can only be passed by majority vote of the players. Donald Fehr can't pass them on his own.

    So, no, I don't think all the players voted for agreements that prevented drug penalties, bans and testing. But I know a majority did. And I know a player like Helling was rare minority in speaking against PEDs to his union.

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  • cjclong
    replied
    Re: O/T - Why is Barry Larkin exempt from Roid talk?

    You say "they" voted against drug testing. Who is "they." Do you know which players were for it and which against it? If you do say so. Do you say its "karma" for a player who was for drug testing to be lumped in with those against. Sports opinion isn't a court of law and if it makes you happy and feel good to lump all players together and accuse players who have not used steroids with using them go right ahead.

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  • David
    replied
    Re: O/T - Why is Barry Larkin exempt from Roid talk?

    Say someone destroys (or suppresses) information, but afterwords realizes he needs that same information to prove his case. Far from being unfair, many would call the end result sweet justice. Or karma. Or ironic.

    Why should I feel sorry for players who can't prove their innocence because there was no drug testing, when they voted against drug testing. Sometimes karma has a way of coming back and biting you in the ass.

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  • David
    replied
    Re: O/T - Why is Barry Larkin exempt from Roid talk?

    The player's union, at behest of the players' they represented, prevented any and all testing and penalties for PEDs. They suppressed any and all information related to player use. This has proven to be a double edge sword for the union and their players. This lack of testing and evidence helps protect the users, but it also makes it impossible for non-users to prove they didn't use. I hate the 'under the bus' cliche, but the union's system threw the non-users under the bus to protect the users-- and the non-users themselves voted for this system.

    Do I think this mess is unfair to the players? No I do not, because this is the system the players, including the non-users, insisted upon having. If you suppress information, don't bitch and moan ten years later because you can't prove your case because the information was supressed.

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  • whatupyos
    replied
    Re: O/T - Why is Barry Larkin exempt from Roid talk?

    Originally posted by cjclong
    Do we really want to throw all the players from the 1990's up till now under the bus because we know know a certain number of them used steroids and other PED's. We know a certain number of people in the population murder people or abuse children. So we could all speculate that this player or that player is a secret murderer. Their are two ways you can go, innocent until proven guilty or the system some other countries use that you must prove you are innocent. I guess we can have a post every week about a different player and speculate based on rumor or gossip whether they use PED.'s
    Fair enough. You've got a valid point. I just wanted to do a rebuttal against Pujouls being clean when I have my doubts. That's my bad for even posting on here.

    Aaron

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  • cjclong
    replied
    Re: O/T - Why is Barry Larkin exempt from Roid talk?

    Do we really want to throw all the players from the 1990's up till now under the bus because we know know a certain number of them used steroids and other PED's. We know a certain number of people in the population murder people or abuse children. So we could all speculate that this player or that player is a secret murderer. Their are two ways you can go, innocent until proven guilty or the system some other countries use that you must prove you are innocent. I guess we can have a post every week about a different player and speculate based on rumor or gossip whether they use PED.'s

    Leave a comment:


  • cardinalbaseballfan
    replied
    Re: O/T - Why is Barry Larkin exempt from Roid talk?

    I normally enjoy lurking, but I couldn't believe given the topic and named players that this hasn't been brought up--here's a link to the SI cover story about Pujols from last week's issue. Regardless of your view, it's a well worth the read.



    Back to lurking...

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  • whatupyos
    replied
    Re: O/T - Why is Barry Larkin exempt from Roid talk?

    Originally posted by suave1477
    Ok I think some of you guys are getting out of hand with making Pujols out to be a "Baheemath"

    Getting a little ridiculous!!

    Ask Rob Steimetz from AuthenticGamers he has a picture on his website standing right next to Pujols and by the looks of it Rob is pretty close in size to Pujols and Rob doesn't come across as a "Baheemath"

    And because some pitcher doesn't see Pujols working out doesn't mean much.

    For the roids to work you have to work out. It is part of the regimin.

    You don't just take roids and grow mass muscle watching tv. Doesn't work that way.

    As far as Larkin, again I don't see a red flag go up just because a player had one above average season. Again if he had a monster season yes I would be concerned, but above average no way.
    I know how roids work. I've worked in 5 different gyms in my life. I know you just don't take them and magically grow. But it does help in the sense that a little bit of working out and you'll get big quick. Which was the point I believe the pitcher was trying to make. I've busted my butt my whole life trying to add muscle and I can't do it that well. I guess its a matter of believe who you want to believe. The pitcher is real credible. I'll trust him, who played with him and saw him in the clubhouse, over a photo with Rob. Pictures can be deceiving. Look at Brady Anderson. Not a huge guy, but he needed band aid's for all his cuts.

    Aaron

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  • bigtruck260
    replied
    Re: O/T - Why is Barry Larkin exempt from Roid talk?

    Good article Bert.

    I agree with that philosophy too. Anyone from this board that has seen me would not recognize me from my high school days. I was a college pitcher at 6 foot 1, 180 pounds...after I quit ball, I started lifting weights regularly and added 40 pounds of muscle in 2 years....6 foot 1, 220 -

    Got married in 1997 and stopped working out - got a little fat...add another 40 pounds to 2009 and somehow, I kept growing in height too...so, now, I am a robust 6'2", 260. A long way from high school - and not one steriod (that I know of), though I did take some supplements.

    The thread about Larkin is really about ANY athlete from the era. At least a few people in this thread are not 100% on Larkin - he may be as clean as they come...

    The point is (again) - I'ts hard for me as a fan to exonerate every player from doing steriods from 1996-2003. Larkin was just one example.

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  • shoremen44
    replied
    Re: O/T - Why is Barry Larkin exempt from Roid talk?

    article link...

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  • shoremen44
    replied
    Re: O/T - Why is Barry Larkin exempt from Roid talk?

    Interesting article from 2001...

    "DOES SIZE REALLY MATTER? Today's major leaguers are bigger and stronger than those of earlier eras - physical size of baseball players"

    As for size of people... my grandfather was 5'5" 145lbs... my father is 6'4" 235lbs... is he on roids? Genetics and darwinian evolution do play a factor here.

    As for how many players were so big in 1980... probably not many... then again you go back to the glory days of the NFL and the lineman were like 225lbs...

    Ruth who was supposed to be huge... was 6'2" 195lbs... I'm bigger than him.


    Part of the reason these guys are bigger or more muscular than the average guy, is that its their job to be in shape... if you were paid millions to workout year round you would be pretty solid too.

    I played lacrosse in college at a pretty high level... we practiced, ran, and worked out everyday... I was a ripped 220lbs... guess what... now, not so much working out... still the 220... not quite ripped.

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  • suave1477
    replied
    Re: O/T - Why is Barry Larkin exempt from Roid talk?

    Ok I think some of you guys are getting out of hand with making Pujols out to be a "Baheemath"

    Getting a little ridiculous!!

    Ask Rob Steimetz from AuthenticGamers he has a picture on his website standing right next to Pujols and by the looks of it Rob is pretty close in size to Pujols and Rob doesn't come across as a "Baheemath"

    And because some pitcher doesn't see Pujols working out doesn't mean much.

    For the roids to work you have to work out. It is part of the regimin.

    You don't just take roids and grow mass muscle watching tv. Doesn't work that way.

    As far as Larkin, again I don't see a red flag go up just because a player had one above average season. Again if he had a monster season yes I would be concerned, but above average no way.

    Leave a comment:


  • whatupyos
    replied
    Re: O/T - Why is Barry Larkin exempt from Roid talk?

    [quote=earlywynnfan;130038]I agree, and I'm a big fan of Larkin's. This, to me, is the biggest problem with all the steroids: Nobody is immune to questions.

    I'll give you another one: Last spring, I believe, some major magazine wrote how we all should root for Albert Pujols, because he's 1) a really nice guy, 2) an incredible player, and 3) CLEAN!! Now, no way am I sitting here saying Pujols is on anything. But I'm supposed to go to games and root him on like a diehard fan because I "know" he's clean? How do I know that??? I've never seen a Dominican this big before, have you? Not to be stereotypical, but aren't they supposed to be little guys? Heck, how many baseball players in general were this big before 1980? (I'll spot you Howard, Radatz, Conley, and Greenberg. Heck, Jimmie Foxx was known as the Beast and he wasn't close!)



    I had a major league pitcher come to my class in college who player with Pujouls. He suspected that 80% of people in baseball and some point, both majors and minors used roids. He said Pujouls is a baheemath (sp?). Said he rearly see him in the gym. So, you have to wonder. I don't care what its listen on a baseball card. Someone said 6'2" 210lbs. I highly doubt that. McGwire was listen at 6'5" 250 but I heard people say he was more like 275. I wouldn't be surprised if Pujouls' name gets ousted at some point for PED's.

    Aaron

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  • corsairs22
    replied
    Re: O/T - Why is Barry Larkin exempt from Roid talk?

    On Larkin's 33 homers in 96: it's possible that the hitters who used steroids worked over pitching staffs so badly that even those hitters who were not on the juice had an easier time hitting.

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  • AWA85
    replied
    Re: O/T - Why is Barry Larkin exempt from Roid talk?

    Coming from a major Larkin fan, my thoughts will probably be a little bias.

    Larkin was never healthy at all. The season he hit 33, he played 152 games (very good for him). I believe in his prime years before this he only played in about a 100 games to a 130, followed by missing half a season after the 33 home run year.

    Not exactly great ways to draw comparisons when a player misses that much time due to injury.

    This just might be me, but if he was on the juice I think he would have been a lot healthier. In a 19 year career, only playing more than a 140 games 7 times stands out. (Off topic, but think this may be the one thing that hurts him in getting in the HOF, if he played a little more the numbers would have been automatic)

    My final review, Larkin is clean.... time to review Mr. Pujols

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