Cal Ripken GU Helmet for only $5.995 Million!!!

[mr.miracle]

Re: Cal Ripken GU Helmet for only $5.995 Million!!!

Hi Brett,

No disrespect intended on posting. I just saw the high price and posted the thread.

You can set your BIN to automatically reject offers.

I would also recommend contacting Mr. Ripken and asking him.

Or does anyone have contact info for the O's EM during this timeframe?

Good Luck!

No problem, sorry I flew off the handle guys. That price is absolutely ridiculous and I totally understand your points on this. No offense taken from your post or any of the others. I appreciate the ideas and feedback.

Ironmanfan - Perhaps if you read this thread you could confirm, would Cal ever offer an opinion on this or any other game used piece that is presumed to be his? Do you have any first hand knowledge or idea? My guess would be that he would not certainly not in the form of writing game used on the item or signing a letter attesting to the fact. In which case, that really does not help me. If I wanted to sell the helmet, telling people that Cal Ripken personally examined the helmet and gave it the thumbs up would not really carry too much weight.

[camarokids]

Re: Cal Ripken GU Helmet for only $5.995 Million!!!

Hi Brett,

No disrespect intended on posting. I just saw the high price and posted the thread.

You can set your BIN to automatically reject offers.

I would also recommend contacting Mr. Ripken and asking him.

Or does anyone have contact info for the O's EM during this timeframe?

Good Luck!

[kingjammy24]

Re: Cal Ripken GU Helmet for only $5.995 Million!!!

Thanks for the tips Rudy. Good call on the photomatch. Okay, $2k it is for a complete full photomatch with giant glossy images. If anybody wants to have at it, please feel free. I might just contact Barry and see what he has to say. Of course, I cannot offer $2k if it does not match so that might preclude me from using their services depending on what their research price is per hour etc. Anyone know where they have any of this info. specified? I did not see anything on their website about photomatching services.

Thanks,

in 2007, i inquired with barry about photomatching an item of mine. it wasn't a high value item, but simply one that i would've loved to see in-action. i didn't doubt the authenticity or want to add value to it. it just would've made the item even better to me personally to see a photo of it in-action.

here the gist of his response at that time:

"The fee is regardless of whether the jersey can be photo-matched, but rest assured we first discuss the likelihood of matching based on available photos. If you ask us to match a jersey of a player who played one major-league game and we know that there are two photos on file for him, we're not going to waste our time or your money charging to research...

..Generally, the charge is $50 and up, based on the jersey and the amount of research necessary ... and there is an additional cost to provide the photographic LOA if we find a photo-match.

Ballpark average cost (not a price quote, however)? $100 for middle of the road priced jerseys, $200 for higher end stuff....
...Depending upon the sport, era, event, Getty might have more photos than is posted on their website. But that's when the greater research time comes in. We have access to their facility in New York City, where they have millions more photos. Basically, from before the internet and digital photography, there are reams of pictures that slowly but surely get digitized and loaded onto their site.

..for us to research a jersey like that, it would take time and would cost money...

..As far as if you see a jersey on Getty, with access to download and enlarge and really work with the actual downloaded photos, not just the ones you see with the watermarks, we can often conclusively photo-match...So it's always case-by-case."

for most common items, i don't think their value would justify the cost of having meigray do a photomatch. you'll spend more on the photomatch than the item is worth. however, in your case, you have what could potentially be a premier item; in your words a "$5k or $6k helmet". as it stands now, you have a $250 conversation piece and you could potentially be sitting on a 100% photomatched early ripken helmet. with a potential piece like that and you willing to spend the amount you're willing to spend on a match, i'd definitely contact barry. i'd do my best to narrow down the possible years first though as that would help barry and cut down on your costs. whatever you see on gettyimages.com is only a fraction of what getty really has in total. as he said, barry has access to "millions" of more photos from getty's nyc facility that getty simply hasn't gotten around to uploading onto their site. as well, when any of us look on getty, we're looking at pretty small images. there were times i thought i could photomatch something if only the image was larger and i could ascertain more of the detail more clearly. when barry looks at getty photos, he's got access to the high-res stuff. it makes a world of difference.

rudy.

[mr.miracle]

Re: Cal Ripken GU Helmet for only $5.995 Million!!!

hey brett

mears said that they originally dated this helmet from 1982-85 via the "ABC pinwheel". i don't know if they were referring to the production date or the range that this style was in use. i'm guessing the former. do you know what years this specific style was used?

it seems to me that the entire thing hinges on whether or not the orioles would recycle a used helmet from one player to another. while i have absolutely no clue on that issue, it seems "capricious and arbritary" (as cosmo kramer would say) for mears to automatically rule out use by ripken based solely and entirely on a number change. by doing so, mears has pretty much concluded that the orioles did not recycle helmets. granted, if mears had said it could've been used by ripken then they'd be stating that the orioles did recycle helmets.

all of that said, you could ignore that entire issue simply by focusing on finding a photomatch. narrow down the years ripken could've possibly used the helmet. it shouldn't be that hard if you're willing to really go at it. you mentioned a $500 offer for a "solid photomatch". $500 to take your $250 helmet as it stands and turn it into a "$5k or $6k" helmet? that is, you're willing to pay someone $500 in order for them to make you $5k? you can do better than that. if someone's going to make you $5k, at least toss them $2k and if you're willing to spend $2k then i'd contact barry meisel. meigray offers a premier photomatching service and $2k would more than cover their cost. if barry matches it, it'll be a real, undeniable match. i'm sure they'd even toss in a 16x20 full glossy photo of the match. it won't be some fuzzy blob nonsense. the unfortunate thing is that they charge even if they don't find a match. apparently all the time spent is worth something. it's a roll of the dice on your end but it may end up being a bonanza. if ripken did indeed wear the helmet, it should be apparent during the appropriate timeframe. a well banged-up helmet isn't a hard thing to match.

earlier you said "Even if I can somehow photomatch it..there will always now be questions about its authenticity and most likely nobody will touch it with a ten foot pole". no. if you photomatch it, there will be no questions about it and you can pretty much toss the MEARS LOA in the garbage. a genuine, solid photomatch trumps everything. unlike some authenticator's opinion, a photomatch is undeniable, verifiable fact. if you find a photomatch of ripken wearing the helmet, then nothing else matters. not the number change, not the MEARS LOA. the photomatch will have proven that your helmet was worn in action by ripken. end of story.

good luck,

rudy.

Thanks for the tips Rudy. Good call on the photomatch. Okay, $2k it is for a complete full photomatch with giant glossy images. If anybody wants to have at it, please feel free. I might just contact Barry and see what he has to say. Of course, I cannot offer $2k if it does not match so that might preclude me from using their services depending on what their research price is per hour etc. Anyone know where they have any of this info. specified? I did not see anything on their website about photomatching services.

Thanks,

[kingjammy24]

Re: Cal Ripken GU Helmet for only $5.995 Million!!!

A 100% photomatch, in which case I would return it to Mears and have them reevaluate it with the new info.

if you got a 100% photomatch, then what's left to re-evaluate? why even go back to mears? so mears can tell you what's already clear to everyone else? "yup. that's a photomatch alright". a photomatch is worth infinitely more than any A10 letter.

it'd be like winning the presidency of the united states just so you can earn enough money to campaign to be president of your high school photography club.

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

Re: Cal Ripken GU Helmet for only $5.995 Million!!!

hey brett

mears said that they originally dated this helmet from 1982-85 via the "ABC pinwheel". i don't know if they were referring to the production date or the range that this style was in use. i'm guessing the former. do you know what years this specific style was used?

it seems to me that the entire thing hinges on whether or not the orioles would recycle a used helmet from one player to another. while i have absolutely no clue on that issue, it seems "capricious and arbritary" (as cosmo kramer would say) for mears to automatically rule out use by ripken based solely and entirely on a number change. by doing so, mears has pretty much concluded that the orioles did not recycle helmets. granted, if mears had said it could've been used by ripken then they'd be stating that the orioles did recycle helmets.

all of that said, you could ignore that entire issue simply by focusing on finding a photomatch. narrow down the years ripken could've possibly used the helmet. it shouldn't be that hard if you're willing to really go at it. you mentioned a $500 offer for a "solid photomatch". $500 to take your $250 helmet as it stands and turn it into a "$5k or $6k" helmet? that is, you're willing to pay someone $500 in order for them to make you $5k? you can do better than that. if someone's going to make you $5k, at least toss them $2k and if you're willing to spend $2k then i'd contact barry meisel. meigray offers a premier photomatching service and $2k would more than cover their cost. if barry matches it, it'll be a real, undeniable match. i'm sure they'd even toss in a 16x20 full glossy photo of the match. it won't be some fuzzy blob nonsense. the unfortunate thing is that they charge even if they don't find a match. apparently all the time spent is worth something. it's a roll of the dice on your end but it may end up being a bonanza. if ripken did indeed wear the helmet, it should be apparent during the appropriate timeframe. a well banged-up helmet isn't a hard thing to match.

earlier you said "Even if I can somehow photomatch it..there will always now be questions about its authenticity and most likely nobody will touch it with a ten foot pole". no. if you photomatch it, there will be no questions about it and you can pretty much toss the MEARS LOA in the garbage. a genuine, solid photomatch trumps everything. unlike some authenticator's opinion, a photomatch is undeniable, verifiable fact. if you find a photomatch of ripken wearing the helmet, then nothing else matters. not the number change, not the MEARS LOA. the photomatch will have proven that your helmet was worn in action by ripken. end of story.

good luck,

rudy.

[nomarmauerfan]

Re: Cal Ripken GU Helmet for only $5.995 Million!!!

Brett,
If it makes you feel any better (and I doubt it will), I won a Morneau bat from Vintage Authentics a few months ago. MEARS' rationale for passing the bat were 2 photos where he was using a black Max bat (both photos are of Justin with his red/brown BWP bat) and a third picture with the Getty identifying number. Unfortunately, that number takes you to a picture of the Pope (I kid you not). So, no one is ever 100% right. I wish you the best of luck finding a match so you can get that "Aha" moment.

Mike

[mr.miracle]

Re: Cal Ripken GU Helmet for only $5.995 Million!!!

Have you tried writing directly to Ripken and asking him about the helmet? At this point it's worth a shot and Ripken's potential feedback on it would be well worth it especially if he said it was good. I think if you included a nice letter noting the provenance you have from the seller and included some pics of the helmet you never know maybe he might respond. Good luck!

Thanks Dewey, I have actually had several people bring this up. I guess anything is worth a shot. At this point, only two things will ever negate the Mears LOA. A 100% photomatch, in which case I would return it to Mears and have them reevaluate it with the new info. and or a letter or something from Cal stating its authenticity (which I highly doubt that he would do whether it is authentic or not) but anything is worth a shot as otherwise it is mearly a nice conversation piece with a very long story to boot.

[Dewey2007]

Re: Cal Ripken GU Helmet for only $5.995 Million!!!

The offer was for $250.00. I actually kind of made up my mind that unless somebody was willing to fork over around $2k and without a photo match I am guessing that is impossible, I will probably hang onto it and see if I can ever successfully photo match it. Michael is right, unless it could ever be 100% photo matched and at this point I am not holding my breath, that Mears LOA will ultimately keep this from ever bringing any real value. It is just that simple.

Have you tried writing directly to Ripken and asking him about the helmet? At this point it's worth a shot and Ripken's potential feedback on it would be well worth it especially if he said it was good. I think if you included a nice letter noting the provenance you have from the seller and included some pics of the helmet you never know maybe he might respond. Good luck!

[mr.miracle]

Re: Cal Ripken GU Helmet for only $5.995 Million!!!

little late to this thread but someone made an offer....thats crazy!!

The offer was for $250.00. I actually kind of made up my mind that unless somebody was willing to fork over around $2k and without a photo match I am guessing that is impossible, I will probably hang onto it and see if I can ever successfully photo match it. Michael is right, unless it could ever be 100% photo matched and at this point I am not holding my breath, that Mears LOA will ultimately keep this from ever bringing any real value. It is just that simple.

[gameu08]

Re: Cal Ripken GU Helmet for only $5.995 Million!!!

little late to this thread but someone made an offer....thats crazy!!

[mvandor]

Re: Cal Ripken GU Helmet for only $5.995 Million!!!

At this point, I don't expect anyone to take that auction seriously as nobody has from day one anyway. Based on ridiculous offers of $25.00 and repeated offers in that neighborhood. Now I will grant you that ultimately it cannot ever be determined if this helmet is authentic and I have argued long and hard with Troy Kinnuen at MEARS about the helmet because I think his logic is as flawed in shooting it down as people may say mine is in defending it legitimacy. In any case, even if it was not a Ripken helmet, a game used Orioles helmet from the mid 80's even from a common player would sell for several hundreds based on scarcity alone.

Although I generally trust Mears, in this case I just think their logic is completely flawed but I am NOT going to go back into that whole mess again. That being said, Mears has had more than their fair share of major mistakes over the years many of which have been pointed out on this forum numerous times so I am not sure exactly what to say to your statement. Since nobody was taking this auction serious from day one, there is no reason to think that anybody ever would whether I was selling the helmet for $950.00, $2500.00, $5000.00 or $5 million. By the way, I was selling it for $950.00 for a month and got nothing but ridiculous offers.

Like I said, the bottom line is, should I lie about it like many sellers would probably try to do just to make a buck. I want everyone to know that Mears examined it. I have reason to think Mears is wrong but it is ultimately up to the individual potential buyer to decide that for themselves.

Do I expect anybody to take this seriously. Absolutely not at this point. Did I expect to ever have any issue with this helmet when I purchased it five years ago absolutely not. I had zero thought or question when I bought it that it was not 100% legit. When I had it authenticated on the outside chance that I might need to sell it someday, I was shocked and dumbfounded when Mears said it was not legit. I thought if the day ever came that I needed to sell it I would easily get $5 or $6k but such is life I suppose.

Seems to me with that paperwork acting as an albatross, no way you get your money back out of that lid. It's a loser on resale if you disclose MEARS opinion, and I'm sure you know it.

[mr.miracle]

Re: Cal Ripken GU Helmet for only $5.995 Million!!!

Brett,

I respect that you stated MEARS findings in your auction. An authenticators findings in research, whether and autograph or game used item is still soley based on an opinion. Although they couldn't directly link the helmet to Ripken, it still does not mean it could've been worn by him. The provenance that comes with it, etc, should help you out, but if I was the owner I would def try and find as many photos, facts, of the item. People tend to jump on the whole its not authentic bandwagon without even trying to prove it, just because it doesn't have a COA or LOA. I think you could be sitting on a nice item, and you should find more evidence on it. I'm sure you have done all the research the internet has allowed you to do, but there are plenty of other ways on doing it. I think its a great helmet, and I wish you best of luck with your item. In looking at the autograph of Cal's, which appears to be an earlier version of his, If the item was bogus would he sign it? Or maybe is was a standard game worn Orioles lid with an 8 added after he signed it? Questions we might never know, but I think ultimately research will plays its part. I will be looking for photographic proof to help you, and will let you know of my findings.

Take care,

Mark

Hello Mark:

I appreciate the comments. If you do find anything let me know. Of course as we all know, the number of photos from the mid-80's on Getty, Corbis and several other photo sites I have searched is not nearly as comprehensive as today. So far, I have struck out on all of those sites but I will continue to look through the many photos in local print, books, magazines etc. for proof.

That being said, if anybody can produce a solid photo match of that Lid to Ripken, I will offer a $500.00 reward to that person. It must be conclusive on all parts but the offer is out there. $500.00 for an exact photo match. I am willing to even allow someone to examine the lid in person if that would assist them in doing some additional research.

Thanks,

[Capital-Sports]

Re: Cal Ripken GU Helmet for only $5.995 Million!!!

Brett,

I respect that you stated MEARS findings in your auction. An authenticators findings in research, whether and autograph or game used item is still soley based on an opinion. Although they couldn't directly link the helmet to Ripken, it still does not mean it could've been worn by him. The provenance that comes with it, etc, should help you out, but if I was the owner I would def try and find as many photos, facts, of the item. People tend to jump on the whole its not authentic bandwagon without even trying to prove it, just because it doesn't have a COA or LOA. I think you could be sitting on a nice item, and you should find more evidence on it. I'm sure you have done all the research the internet has allowed you to do, but there are plenty of other ways on doing it. I think its a great helmet, and I wish you best of luck with your item. In looking at the autograph of Cal's, which appears to be an earlier version of his, If the item was bogus would he sign it? Or maybe is was a standard game worn Orioles lid with an 8 added after he signed it? Questions we might never know, but I think ultimately research will plays its part. I will be looking for photographic proof to help you, and will let you know of my findings.

Take care,

Mark

[allstarsplus]

Re: Cal Ripken GU Helmet for only $5.995 Million!!!

Brett is truly a great guy and luckily has many great legit Cal pieces in his collection. He could have thrown this helmet out to an auction house and burned the Mears findings and hid in anonymity hoping nobody would notice because the auction wouldn't disclose its consignor but he as always is upfront and not hiding.

He isn't the first guy with a questionable Cal item as I can remember heated debates on a Cal Ripken glove last year.

I think Brett is right that there is a value in it as it is a legit game used helmet and maybe/maybe not was used by Cal.

I wish Brett luck!!!!