AMI Auction: What Happened???

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: AMI Auction: What Happened???

Suicide - haven't put on the gloves with you at all. Just wanted to hear the story, and your thoughts, and was confused as to why you (someone who is usually very outspoken) weren't sharing. Just curiosity, my friend. I really didn't think that my posts were all that provocative. I've come to expect a certain kind of content from your posts, and was just surprised to not see it with respect to AMI.

As for the Corvette, moving out of the country, etc., the same rules apply. I'm just not an ends-justify-the-means kind of guy... but that's just I. I think it's why I have so much trouble with some of these auction houses.

As for sellers, I trust the folks here at GUU (Chris/Eric/Rob/Mike). I love MeiGray. I think John Taube and Vince Malta are terrific. Sellers like Howard Wolf and Andrew Lang are tops. I could go on. I have some NBA and MLB inside sources who are some very fine individuals. So, when desirable items come up in auction houses such as AMI, it's easy for me to pass. It's just a hobby, not my life. I don't need the items. I just want the items.

Again, not putting on the gloves with you. We're having a conversation about the hobby, that is all.

Nice post....


I'm going to be honest with you. I never intended to stick up for AMI. They have made their bed, and it's impossible for them to sleep in it these days.

I just don't feel the need to kick a man while he's down, so to speak. That's dangerous business.

I will always express my knowledge and experience with the forum, as I would hope the same from everybody. But I do have to make sure that I state things with factual knowledge and back-up...proof, if you will.

Look, I'm not arguing with reason, or integrity, or anything that would add to making our collecting environment better. These bad houses....they are being exposed, busted, and dealing with the fall out as it happens. They have their hands full now. So it would only make sense that they might be looking for a major lawsuit (libel, defamation of character, etc.) to help them along in their plight for survival. I don't want to be involved with it.

I don't disagree with the basis of your comments or even sarahsdad for that matter. I just want to point out that there is a point where doing the right thing on a principle is self defeating. It's not like you have two ropes, one in each hand, and you can't hold the weight of each rock climber any longer, so you need to let go of one to save the other......this is not that serious.

We collect game used/worn/involved items. They are non duplicative. They are one-of-a-kinder's. It's just not a wise decision, as a collector, to go to your auto "NO WAY" predetermined action towards items being offered by questionable sources if it fills a major void in your collection. That's a self defeating practice.

That is my ONLY point here. Past that.......I couldn't agree with you guys more.

I would suggest that we are talking about maybe one, possible two items a year? Is THAT going to keep a large auction house in biz?

Is THAT going to help them in their plight to obtain more consignments with all the bad press out there available to educate potential consigners as to what's going on? I mean, you'd have to be in a cave with no electricity to not know what's going on there....

With the exception of the great guys here running this GUU forum (haven't found anything offered here yet that fills a void in my collection), I have boughten from all of the guys you mentioned, Andrew Lang being most recent here. He filled a MAJOR void in my collection, and I will always be greatful to him for it. But you mention John Taube and Vince Malta.....they have worked for and with Victor at AMI for many years.....so what's up with that?

My point is, where do you draw the line in the sand that you absolutely will not cross?

You need to be objective, use common sense, and make clear educated and well-thought out decisions in each and every case. To throw a blanket statement that you'll "never" buy from an auction house because of this and that....just doesn't work.

I will leave it at this......I truly hope you understand where I'm coming from. I'm with you on 99% of the issues being discussed here. I just can't say "never" to the whole package, because I would be lying to myself and all of you if I did, as explained.

Keep up the good fight, you guys are on the correct path. Our hobby, and the industry, is improving every day. You can't say that about a lot of industries in our world, it's something to be proud of.

[sarahsdad]

Re: AMI Auction: What Happened???

I can only hope that you are the individual on the other end one day. Given your theatrics and drama over your C&D letter along with your neighbor visiting you, I'll bet you would post one hell of a thread. It is good to know where your morals and ethics stand. You would bid on something from AMI knowing that in all probability the individual who consigned the item would not be paid for it. That is what I read in your posts.
Sarahsdad

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: AMI Auction: What Happened???

I have never purchased or consigned anything to AMI. And I never will. And I will never do business with any entity that does not pay its consigners. And the reason being is really quite simple. Because the poor individual who consigned their item will probably never get paid for their item. So the next time you place a bid with a deadbeat company think of the poor individual on the consigning end who is not going to get paid. And then determine if you really want to go through with your bid. If you do then you are just as big of a deadbeat as the auction house. You are excited to get your item but the poor guy on the other end has to hire a lawyer after months/years of trying to collect their money on their own. I have sold many items. Sometimes just to thin out my collection. Other times because the car broke down or a payment was due on my kids braces. So not being paid could have potentially caused a hardship. But since I purposefully stay away from deadbeat entities I substantially limit my exposure to not being paid. I suggest we all stay away from deadbeat entities. I have seen the power of this Forum in action. This Forum really does have the ability to determine who stays in business and who does not.
Sarahsdad

I see.

So now, our collections are going to subject to sarahsdad's vehicular maintenance, and based on what everyone else in the hobby is selling to these "deadbeat" auction houses......because, by God, we need to make sure the guys who are selling them the sometimes fraudulent things they pass off as legit.....are GETTING PAID for them! Not to mention the very same "consigners" that are selling these items MAY BE shill bidding their items up because they want us highly honest and integrity-latent bidders to pay through the NOSE for what they're selling.


You can't make this stuff up.


Daddy-O......listen my friend, after all the imformation we have at our fingertips, all of the info displayed in a painstakingly open and honest forum right here, which will pop up in the face of anyone doing a minimal and reasonable amount of research upon deciding which companies to consign with.....I don't feel it's a reasonable request to ask members here to refrain from bidding on an item they may seriously want to add to their collection because "consigners aren't getting paid" by this "deadbeat" auction house.

I commend you for your integrity, and righteous and upstanding feelings on the matter.....you are obviously a good man, a great father, and of the straight and narrow which we so desperately need more of in this country.....but you just can't place that perverbial piano on collectors backs like this. It's not fair. Way too extreme. Too many problems with your well-intended theory.

[sportscentury]

Re: AMI Auction: What Happened???

I have never purchased or consigned anything to AMI. And I never will. And I will never do business with any entity that does not pay its consigners. And the reason being is really quite simple. Because the poor individual who consigned their item will probably never get paid for their item. So the next time you place a bid with a deadbeat company think of the poor individual on the consigning end who is not going to get paid. And then determine if you really want to go through with your bid. If you do then you are just as big of a deadbeat as the auction house. You are excited to get your item but the poor guy on the other end has to hire a lawyer after months/years of trying to collect their money on their own. I have sold many items. Sometimes just to thin out my collection. Other times because the car broke down or a payment was due on my kids braces. So not being paid could have potentially caused a hardship. But since I purposefully stay away from deadbeat entities I substantially limit my exposure to not being paid. I suggest we all stay away from deadbeat entities. I have seen the power of this Forum in action. This Forum really does have the ability to determine who stays in business and who does not.
Sarahsdad

I agree entirely.

[sportscentury]

Re: AMI Auction: What Happened???

Suicide - haven't put on the gloves with you at all. Just wanted to hear the story, and your thoughts, and was confused as to why you (someone who is usually very outspoken) weren't sharing. Just curiosity, my friend. I really didn't think that my posts were all that provocative. I've come to expect a certain kind of content from your posts, and was just surprised to not see it with respect to AMI.

As for the Corvette, moving out of the country, etc., the same rules apply. I'm just not an ends-justify-the-means kind of guy... but that's just I. I think it's why I have so much trouble with some of these auction houses.

As for sellers, I trust the folks here at GUU (Chris/Eric/Rob/Mike). I love MeiGray. I think John Taube and Vince Malta are terrific. Sellers like Howard Wolf and Andrew Lang are tops. I could go on. I have some NBA and MLB inside sources who are some very fine individuals. So, when desirable items come up in auction houses such as AMI, it's easy for me to pass. It's just a hobby, not my life. I don't need the items. I just want the items.

Again, not putting on the gloves with you. We're having a conversation about the hobby, that is all.

[sarahsdad]

Re: AMI Auction: What Happened???

I have never purchased or consigned anything to AMI. And I never will. And I will never do business with any entity that does not pay its consigners. And the reason being is really quite simple. Because the poor individual who consigned their item will probably never get paid for their item. So the next time you place a bid with a deadbeat company think of the poor individual on the consigning end who is not going to get paid. And then determine if you really want to go through with your bid. If you do then you are just as big of a deadbeat as the auction house. You are excited to get your item but the poor guy on the other end has to hire a lawyer after months/years of trying to collect their money on their own. I have sold many items. Sometimes just to thin out my collection. Other times because the car broke down or a payment was due on my kids braces. So not being paid could have potentially caused a hardship. But since I purposefully stay away from deadbeat entities I substantially limit my exposure to not being paid. I suggest we all stay away from deadbeat entities. I have seen the power of this Forum in action. This Forum really does have the ability to determine who stays in business and who does not.
Sarahsdad

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: AMI Auction: What Happened???

If you know of AMI shill bidding, I hope you will decide to share the story with us. You have always been great about sharing information to help the GUU family and protect its members/readers.

And thank you for the kind comment.....I will continue to do so because it's all that matters.

sportscentury......one last thing to add on my last post....

Because of the kinds of things we collect, it would be impossible to obtain game used items that we seek if there was a prerequisite attached to every possible transaction whereas the company we were winning the item from (or buying, if that were the case) had to "pass" a certain level of "integrity" tests. I mean......forget about our hobby, just look at big business in America in general?

Are you going to cease from buying a Corvette that you've always wanted because the UAW's Union has essentially bankrupted the industry due to the greed and demands placed on the industry? Are you going to move to France because our own Government performed war crimes against terrorist detainees, and most likely breaks many laws on a daily basis to keep us all safe.....well, not safe from taxes, but I don't want to get off target here.

I suppose you could on both accounts (not buy the car......move out of the country, respectively), but isn't that defeating the bigger picture of living where you want to live, and enjoying your life with something that will bring you happiness?

I collect items that are one-of-a-kind, sportscentury. If MastroNet is offering Willie McCovey's very forst career home run baseball he hit in MLB for career homer #1......I can't just pass up on it because I think Bill Mastro shill bid the f&%k out of me on a few other items I won in their past auctions. I would be severly limiting my options to adding to my collection if I followed that path.

Please keep in mind, that is NOT to say that I wouldn't like to see the wrong-doer's punished and for them to get what they deserve. And in large part, aren't we seeing that? There have been some monumental events unfolding in the industry in recent months, basically with auction bidders as the winners, the recipients of the good being done by the changes being rendered. This is a good thing.

Here's to hoping it continues.....and as long as we are all here looking out for one another, the hobby is looking up.

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: AMI Auction: What Happened???

My values and principles will always trump my collecting passion, so no, I don't understand. I assure you, there are many collectors who would never do business with AMI, regardless of what they offer.

For whatever reason, you seem to have put on the gloves with me.

I assure you, my values and principles are every bit as lofty as yours, as I am a person of high integrity too.

But sportscentury......if you follow the lead you are suggesting, to avoid places who have shown at one time or another lesser scruples than you feel is worthy of your business.....then who would you buy from?

Grey Flannel?

AMI?

MastroNet (Now Legendary Auctions)?

Lelands....Hunt Auctions......Heritage?

EBAY, for Christs sake???

I mean, c'mon man, you can't be that naive can you? They have all done something we all would consider "shady" at one time or another.

Do you think Bill Mastro is out of the business because he wanted to grow strawberries in his garden fulltime?

Do you think AMI arbitrairily just got rid of their "Max Bid" capabilities on their bidding system because they really wanted to go back to the "good old days of bidding" once you got outbid as high bidder on an item?

No....there were absolutely deals cut withe FBI on both accounts. "You do this, and we won't slap the cuffs on you".....

Ebay has changed it's policies and the way we view and do business on their site in a relentless effort to suppress the illegal activities which plague the auction industry. And they STILL haven't found a sure fire way of avoiding the ever-so-present "shill bidding" problem. I don't know how they ever will, with the possible exception of having every auction a floor auction with mandatory presence to be able to bid.....yeah, THAT would work.

So when an item I want comes up and is available via an auction, I am more concerned with how the bidding is going, and at what level the item I want is at, instead of wasting my time worrying about who the company is that's offering it. First off, if I'm bidding on it, I've already done my homework on the item, so I'm past the point of worrying about it's authenticity. I'm not going to sweat the integrity of the auction house, because being of the type that's above ground and breathing air.....I already know there's probably something amiss somewhere in their existence.

Again, I hope you understand. Robert Edwards Auctions unfortunately isn't the only auction house that offers EVERYTHING I'm interested in.

[sportscentury]

Re: AMI Auction: What Happened???

As a collector, the only thing that matters is obtaining that item you're after. I hope you understand.

My values and principles will always trump my collecting passion, so no, I don't understand. I assure you, there are many collectors who would never do business with AMI, regardless of what they offer.

Oh, and did I mention.......Sammy basically summed it up in a very short post?

If you know of AMI shill bidding, I hope you will decide to share the story with us. You have always been great about sharing information to help the GUU family and protect its members/readers.

.

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: AMI Auction: What Happened???

So AMI is the auction house with which you want to stay in good standing?! C'mon, Steve, you have to admit that that's pretty funny. Share your story! I realize that you're the one person to whom AMI actually responds (if Victor communicates with you, you are in a very small minority), but you really plan to do more business with them? To the point where you (for perhaps the first time ever) won't be outspoken about a problem? I appreciate all of your GUU posts, but this just doesn't add up.

To be honest, it's nothing that everyone couldn't guess, and I just don't find a reason to get into it with another auction house.

Any auction house.

There is no specific "story" to share....just an opinion. And in answer to your question, and as many of the members have eluded to on other threads, the reality of being a true collector is......If and when an item comes up for auction you really want, it doesn't matter who the auction house is that's offering it, or what they have done in the past, that matters.

As a collector, the only thing that matters is obtaining that item you're after. I hope you understand.




Oh, and did I mention.......Sammy basically summed it up in a very short post?

[sammy]

Re: AMI Auction: What Happened???

Perhaps they shill bid the items up to the point where no one else bid, and AMI was the "winner".

--------------------------------------------------------------------

I refer to AMI's Auction Rule No. 9:

AMI reserves the right to place a bid on any Lot on behalf of the seller up to the amount of the reserve, if any.

[sportscentury]

Re: AMI Auction: What Happened???

I would LOVE to respond to this question.

If you want my opinion, please email me privately. I am in good standing with AMI, and want to leave it that way. Say what you will about Victor, but at least he communicates, unlike that unprofessional piece of human waste at Grey you-know-where.

I made a sincere effort to "clear up" our misunderstanding, and apologize for my over-the-top comments about Rich and his company.

I received no phone call, no letter (besides the C & D), no email...nothing.

I know why to.

There was no misunderstanding. Just bad exposure they couldn't allow to continue.


In any case, back to the AMI auction.....did someone win the Pete Rose bat inscribed to Fernando Gonzalez? I didn't see that one listed as "sold" either?

So AMI is the auction house with which you want to stay in good standing?! C'mon, Steve, you have to admit that that's pretty funny. Share your story! I realize that you're the one person to whom AMI actually responds (if Victor communicates with you, you are in a very small minority), but you really plan to do more business with them? To the point where you (for perhaps the first time ever) won't be outspoken about a problem? I appreciate all of your GUU posts, but this just doesn't add up.

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: AMI Auction: What Happened???

I would LOVE to respond to this question.

If you want my opinion, please email me privately. I am in good standing with AMI, and want to leave it that way. Say what you will about Victor, but at least he communicates, unlike that unprofessional piece of human waste at Grey you-know-where.

I made a sincere effort to "clear up" our misunderstanding, and apologize for my over-the-top comments about Rich and his company.

I received no phone call, no letter (besides the C & D), no email...nothing.

I know why to.

There was no misunderstanding. Just bad exposure they couldn't allow to continue.


In any case, back to the AMI auction.....did someone win the Pete Rose bat inscribed to Fernando Gonzalez? I didn't see that one listed as "sold" either?

[Neely8]

Re: AMI Auction: What Happened???

Not selling the Hornung and Bradshaw would make a dent in AMI's overall profit.

Mark

Great. I guess that means even less consignors get paid now.

[David]

Re: AMI Auction: What Happened???

I don't know for this auction, but this typically means the bidding didn't reach a reserve.