Autograph Collecting Info

[sammy]

Re: Autograph Collecting Info

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Sorry Joel, I still don't see anything to support your accusations.

If you would have actually done any research into the UD and Razor fiasco, you would have found out that Koschal was right and Razor/UD did replace some of those autographs because they were suspect.

You have a Judge involved with the Mastro ripoff stating that Koshal and Simon were not qualified. That was based on technical issues, not hobby experience.

You have a couple of mysterious people stating whatever. Believe that one site is run by John Reznikoff who is exposed on the AA site, but the author doesn't sign his name, so nobody knows.

You have some articles about Koschal selling artwork done by a convicted killer.

Still don't see you disputing ANYTHING stated on that site with anything relevent. Still just trying to attack the messenger, not the message.

Preach it Joel.

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[trsent]

Re: Autograph Collecting Info

Just wish you would come up with something to actually dispute what they state, instead of just always attacking the messenger, and not the message.

No, sorry, I just quote others:

The uproar created by Autograph Alert’s recent allegations against Upper Deck and Razor and their use of suspect Presidential cut autographs made we want to do a little research to find out exactly who is the author and operator of that website. Knowing first hand how cut-throat the autograph authenticity industry can be, I’m glad I did because as it turns out, Steve Koschal is a very disgruntled industry “expert” tied to numerous allegations of fraud, forgery and deception. Once a well respected industry insider with notable credentials, Mr. Koschal has run into some serious criminal allegations.

The International Autograph Collectors Club and Dealers Alliance or IADA-CC confirms that Autograph Alert is run by Mr. Koschal.

A search engine inquiry provides too many results to provide a concise synopsis, but suffice it today that it is always important to know the source of an allegation before finding someone immediately guilty. For those wanting to learn more about who is exactly behind the so-called "news" at Autograph Alert, please feel free to do your own research by reading any of the following articles:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2007/07/15/2007-07-15_lack_of_intent_seen_in_flubs_at_auctions.html The testimony of two experts hired by Daniels to testify that some of the autographs on the photos were forgeries was excluded by the judge. Kincaid said neither Richard Simon nor Stephen Koschal "possess sufficient skill, knowledge or experience in the fields in which they were asked to render opinions."

http://www.stephenkoschal.com/drseuss_sp_cat.html fakes include

http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/426/RipOff0426764.htmhttp://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/424/RipOff0424885.htm

(http://autographdealernews.com/Articles.aspx?article=11

http://www.squidoo.com/amazingjourneys

http://www.uacc.info/page66.htmlhttp://www.sptimes.com/2004/06/06/State/Sale_of_Chicago_seria.shtml

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/psychology/serial_killer_art/6.html

http://www.collectspace.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000330.html koschal published fake Armstrongs as real so he could sell his forgeries

http://www.collectspace.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000332.html more of the same

[sammy]

Re: Autograph Collecting Info

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It's still a semi-free country, so preach all you want.

I personally enjoy reading your intellectual responses.

Just wish you would come up with something to actually dispute what they state, instead of just always attacking the messenger, and not the message.

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[ironmanfan]

Re: Autograph Collecting Info

Yup, you keep praising your friend's web site, and I'll keep preaching the truth about their suspect pasts and hidden agenda.

That's pretty cool

[trsent]

Re: Autograph Collecting Info

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Wow, over 800+ views on the AA thread in just two days.

That's pretty cool.

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Yup, you keep praising your friend's web site, and I'll keep preaching the truth about their suspect pasts and hidden agenda.

[sammy]

Re: Autograph Collecting Info

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Wow, over 800+ views on the AA thread in just two days.

That's pretty cool.

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[xpress34]

Re: Autograph Collecting Info

At least you signed your post and gave points of concern without a personal attack.

Joel -

I learned along time ago - 'you catch more with honey than vinegar'.

Like I said, I see both sides of the base argument, but PSA/DNA, JSA, GAI, etc, etc and even the auction houses aren't 'above the law' when they continue to employ and/or use guys who actually have CRIMINAL records for fraud in the industry they are still working in!

One of my favorite 'bashes of one of these authenticators is a video that was circulating on You Tube a couple of years ago. (I don't remember which company it was)

So they zoom in on an 'authenticator who is handling a 'Babe Ruth' AU ball and states that without even looking at the auto he knows it must be fake because the ball is a 'machine stitched' ball. He goe on about how much he knows about baseballs and that they quit hand stitching balls back in the '30's. I almost fell out of my chair laughing.

1st - regardless of his 'expert' opinion, he's handling he customer's ball with his bare hands! - No gloves, no protection.

2nd - I don't know if you knew I use to work for Rawlings, but there are NO machine stitched balls!!! No matter how cheap - baseball, softball, etc - there is NOT a machine made that can stitch a sphere in a figure 8 pattern without stitching the cover directly to the core. All balls are hand stitched.

The arrogance of these guys just makes me laugh!

All the best -

Smitty

[sox83cubs84]

Re: Autograph Collecting Info

At least you signed your post and gave points of concern without a personal attack.

+1

Dave Miedema

[trsent]

Re: Autograph Collecting Info

Just my .02

- Smitty

At least you signed your post and gave points of concern without a personal attack.

[xpress34]

Re: Autograph Collecting Info

Was reading this thread on another site. Not sure if you need to register to see it.

http://www.sportsgraphing.com/autogr...nticators.html

Otis, Sammy, Joel and whoever else cares to read this -

It's not just Autograph Alert - this stuff is out there on other sites such as the one Otis linked too.

Sammy has been a real help for guys on the Autograph side and I just want to let him know that I'm with him.

Joel - and I'm not attacking you - but I don't know if you get stuff done through PSA/DNA or JSA or any of the other 'authenticators', but the things brought up - regardless of the dates or the sites that reported it doesn't change the facts that PSA/DNA, JSA, etc don't know most autographs any better than some of the members on this site unless they had it signed in front of them (Witnessed Program, UDA, etc).

Some of the things I have read, seen and had personally happen to me with these companies made me not really care about getting anything authenticated - add to that all of the fraudulent stickers and LOAs that have popped up, and it makes it really hard to distinguish what is what.

I agree with the argument that some type of regulation needs to be implemented to control and monitor these so called authenticators.

A couple of personal experiences with PSA/DNA that I will rehash here:

My 2002 Albert Pujols - ROY inscribed ball - that Albert signed for me in person outside Nike Town Denver after I had just spent 4 hours with him in the store at the start of the 2002 season. He inscribed it ROY-'01 and his #5. I sent it along with an A-Rod ball a friend got done in person at Spring Training for me and they both came back as 'Likely NOT Genuine' for the EXACT same reasons (except on the Pujols they made a comment about his ROY inscription that THEY had never seen so they could not authenticate it anyway). I didn't even get offered any type of voucher for future submissions or anything - just out $250 for shipping, insurance, return shipping and their fees + fees for the Letter type LOA. I think I should have at least gotten my money back for the Letter Type LOA upgrade I paid for since they didn't authenticate them.

My Clark Griffith AU ball. It hasn't gone to PSA/DNA, but it was through their items I was able to verify it. A guy had it listed as a Secretarial Sig because it didn't match any of the PSA/DNA or JSA examples he could find on line. I searched too and all I saw were 3 x 5 index card autos that all matched, but didn't match the ball. Then I found a player contract from when Griffith was the owner of the Senators. Signed by Griffith. There is no doubt in my mind that Clark Griffith was sitting there to sign a Player Contract in the 20's. That sig matches the ball exactly - which is why I bought it. And the contract sig was also certified by PSA/DNA and the 3 x 5 Index autos aren't even close to it. My belief is that the 3 x 5 index cards probably are secretarial sigs through the mail. they all match each other.

Finally, I have had MANY dealers at shops across the country tell me the same thing:

When they started sending stuff to PSA/DNA or JSA, almost everything was rejected. hey would immediately resubmit it and it would pass with flying colors... just a ruse by PSA/DNA or JSA to double their fees?

The dealers also said after they had made 5 or 6 submissions to those companies (in other words, they had become 'regular clients') it didn't seem to matter what they sent - everything passed and came back faster than their earlier submissions.

Anyone on this site knows that no matter what you think, it's all a matter of GUESS work unless you specifically saw the item signed yourself or you implicitly trust the person who says they got it signed in person.

That's why I do my own LOAs/COAs - regardless of their 'value' to the buyer -
and I always tell all the info I know on the piece... whether I got it in person myself, had someone get it for me, traded for it, bought it off eBay, etc. All I can do is give you all the info I have and let you make your own decision.

I do find it funny though (especially after all the articles about the so called authenticators) that most collector's will buy an item with a Third Party letter without question and pay a premium but will try to rip apart an individual who tries to sell items they got signed in person - regardless of photo proof, etc.

I'm not defending Autograph Alert, because I do agree that it's a bit hypocritical to rip everyone else while trying to steer people to your own authentication services, but there is a lot of good info in there as well - including the FACT that PSA/DNA and many 'reputable' Auction Houses still hire and use the services of one of the biggest frauds and forgers of our generation - John Reznikoff. Regardless of AA's self serving motives, facts like those are not disputable.

Just my .02

- Smitty

[trsent]

Re: Autograph Collecting Info

Hey Joel,

In case you cant count, there is ONE thread on the Autograph Forum, and has been for a long time. I update the link when there is new information, but you know that because you always have to clutter it up with your whining and BS.

If you have any information to refute whatever is stated on their, then put up or shut up.

If you have anything worth listening too, which you haven't in a long time, then start your own post and enjoy.

I am concerned, what "Whining and BS" are you talking about? You praise a web site that's contains posts from people bashing their competition and they don't even sign their posts and take credit for their alleged findings. These are people who are not respected in the autograph collecting community, so they have a hidden agenda to attack authenticators who are respected in the community.

If you are going to post praising their site, I am going to post complaining about their site.

How come every time I post, your reply is a personal attack on me?

Look at your Autograph Forum post? You attack me several times. I understand, Justin Purdy is the moderator on that forum, and Autograph Alert has not attacked him yet (maybe because he is out of Florida?) but maybe because Justin appears not to moderate that forum anymore.

As I have always stated, if you veer from the valid points I make about the activities and hidden agendas from the hidden people behind Autograph Alert, and just personally attack me, it shows your side is flawed.

Understand? Defend Autograph Alert with facts and not by attacking me when I post to show the questionable behavior of their web site.

[otismalibu]

Re: Autograph Collecting Info

Was reading this thread on another site. Not sure if you need to register to see it.

http://www.sportsgraphing.com/autograph-talk-questions/108534-another-example-what-joke-authenticators.html

[sammy]

Re: Autograph Collecting Info

It is posted on the Autograph Forum, and has been for a long time, thank you.

I posted on this section of GU as it is a better suited section, and the other one got cluttered up with a whole bunch of stuff that had nothing to do with the posting.

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Hey Joel,

In case you cant count, there is ONE thread on the Autograph Forum, and has been for a long time. I update the link when there is new information, but you know that because you always have to clutter it up with your whining and BS.

If you have any information to refute whatever is stated on their, then put up or shut up.

If you have anything worth listening too, which you haven't in a long time, then start your own post and enjoy.

[ironmanfan]

Re: Autograph Collecting Info

god forbid he actually posts that link on the actual Autograph Forum (has no trouble posting responses on that board any other time).....

[trsent]

Re: Autograph Collecting Info

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http://www.autographalert.com/news.html

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The best discussion about this site:

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_f...ad.php?t=18147

Funny, Autograph Alert picks on 3rd party authenticators, but they have their own 3rd party authentication company:

http://paasaa.com/

http://www.paasautographs.com/

Or find them on eBay:

http://shop.ebay.com/pro-authenticat...5. m570.l1313

So, they rip 3rd party authenticators on one web site, and then offer to authenticate themselves - Another 3rd party authenticator! They don't sign their articles, which is really unprofessional, and then they attack situation after situation, forgetting that many 3rd party authenticators are correct 99.9% of the time, but they love to have a field day with the .1% each and every time.

Then again, there are a few 3rd party autograph authenticators that are maybe correct 50% of the time. There is a bad standard as there is only one or two good 3rd party authenticators in the industry and the rest are all pretenders.

As for the current article, I'd be very surprised if there is everything legitimate with JSA really declining to authenticate Upper Deck Authenticated certified autographs. I'd love to see a reasons from JSA, because they are not that stupid and I have a hunch those letters are not original.

Since no author signs their work on that web site, I take everything they say with a grain of salt and anyone reading it should also.

Interesting reading about Autograph Alert and their webmasters:

http://autographalerttruth.com/enter.html

http://www.voiceofthecollector.com/2...ow-source.html

http://www.ripoffreport.com/bad-chec...udmo-ed8ea.htm

Why the double post? You posted the EXACT link in another thread on the 15th.....

whats the agenda?

How many threads has the mysterious Sam Johnson started over the years praising the hidden agenda of Autograph Alert? Between the Autograph Forum and Game Used Memorabilia Forum, they keep posting fresh threads leading people to a public site that is a one sided attack against all competition. Never a bad word about PAAS, but all other 3rd party authenticators receive harsh treatment and not always an honest story.