Jose Reyes Batting Title

[apfriz]

Re: Jose Reyes Batting Title

Eagle,

I wasnt so much debating that he won while only playing 126 games...
(hamilton won the title by close to 30pts! and he was hurt in sept, he didnt pull himself to enhance his chances)
I am aware that players have won over the years playing fewer games

My beef with him is that he ONLY played 126 games AND pulled himself OUT ON TOP OF THAT....

I will lay my cards out and admit I hate Reyes, so perhaps my opinion is skewed, he has so much talent that he wastes....he's hot dogging, he is constantly hurt, probably too lazy to stretch, but again, i might be unfair as i dont care for him much...

Being said, I stand my opinion of what he did as bush-league...

[apfriz]

Re: Jose Reyes Batting Title

Hey Dave, I understand to a degree what you are saying, but maybe I dont think what he did compares to Reyes??

I think you and I can come up with many many examples of players who 'stuck around' to get a milestone.....300 wins, 4 - 500 hr, I dont think what kruk did was any different than that...

It seemed like Glavine stuck around FOREVER to get 300 wins....

I guess in the end what I see differently in Kruk's case is that he didnt take up a roster spot to hang around for a milestone, or do what reyes did to put his name in the books....

Perhaps we just dont see eye to eye on this one which is fine too, that is what makes baseball great ! the debate and discussion over different situations and how they are handled...greatest game out there...

.....still cant stand reyes though......lol

[sox83cubs84]

Re: Jose Reyes Batting Title

Maybe Im an idiot but I dont see the connection between Kruk and the topic at hand...(Reyes pulling himself for enhanced chance of clinching title)

Did Kruk brake some crazy record??? Was he the first person to retire with a .300 average ?? Hardly....

Did he do it late in the season with his team in a pennant race?
hardly.....

Kruk was good gritty player who played the game hard, that showed great adversity returning from testicular cancer, and has given much back to the fans and the game...

Did Kruk disrespect the game ? please
The fans? doubtfull, almost everyone loves the krukker and many mention this moment as one of the things they LIKED about him !

My opinion of Reyes is like most on the thread, this is one of the cheapest watered down batting titles ive seen....126 games? and then has the stones to take himself out of the last one??? comical
It would have been much easier to watch / accept if Reyes grinded out the schedule with 158 games played 700 abs and pulled this stunt...at least he would have legitimately earned it....what he did is simply garbage
in my mind...

and the rationale that its the first mets batting title??? really?
is THAT how you want it? Michael Strahan style?

Hey, I like the Krukker too, but this wasn't just "retiring with a .300 BA". It was knowing you had a career .300 BA, intentionaly removing yourself from the game, and retiring before the game was over in order to be credited with a desirable personal career statistic. I also wonder if the Sox would have fared any better in '95 with a full season out of Kruk instead of losing him in midseason by his own choice in order to look better in the Baseball Encyclopedia?

Most of Kruk's carrer and post-career moves have been fine with me (I really enjoyed him on The Best Damn Sports Show, Period in the late 1990s). But, on this call, he really blew it.

Dave Miedema

[legaleagle92481]

Re: Jose Reyes Batting Title

Maybe Im an idiot but I dont see the connection between Kruk and the topic at hand...(Reyes pulling himself for enhanced chance of clinching title)

Did Kruk brake some crazy record??? Was he the first person to retire with a .300 average ?? Hardly....

Did he do it late in the season with his team in a pennant race?
hardly.....

Kruk was good gritty player who played the game hard, that showed great adversity returning from testicular cancer, and has given much back to the fans and the game...

Did Kruk disrespect the game ? please
The fans? doubtfull, almost everyone loves the krukker and many mention this moment as one of the things they LIKED about him !

My opinion of Reyes is like most on the thread, this is one of the cheapest watered down batting titles ive seen....126 games? and then has the stones to take himself out of the last one??? comical
It would have been much easier to watch / accept if Reyes grinded out the schedule with 158 games played 700 abs and pulled this stunt...at least he would have legitimately earned it....what he did is simply garbage
in my mind...

and the rationale that its the first mets batting title??? really?
is THAT how you want it? Michael Strahan style?

If Reyes batting title is watered down, what do you think of Joe Mauer's batting tittles? Joe played 140, 146 and 138 games in batting title seasons. He had 181, 176 and 191 hits respectively. Reyes had 181 hits and more at bats than Mauer had in any of his three batting title years. Yes, he is a catcher but shortstop is no picnic defensively either and after catcher is probably the most taxing defensive position. Nomar won two batting titles and played 135 and 140 games those years. Josh Hamilton played 133 games last year and won. Chipper Jones played 128 games when he won his with a whopping 160 hits.

[apfriz]

Re: Jose Reyes Batting Title

Maybe Im an idiot but I dont see the connection between Kruk and the topic at hand...(Reyes pulling himself for enhanced chance of clinching title)

Did Kruk brake some crazy record??? Was he the first person to retire with a .300 average ?? Hardly....

Did he do it late in the season with his team in a pennant race?
hardly.....

Kruk was good gritty player who played the game hard, that showed great adversity returning from testicular cancer, and has given much back to the fans and the game...

Did Kruk disrespect the game ? please
The fans? doubtfull, almost everyone loves the krukker and many mention this moment as one of the things they LIKED about him !

My opinion of Reyes is like most on the thread, this is one of the cheapest watered down batting titles ive seen....126 games? and then has the stones to take himself out of the last one??? comical
It would have been much easier to watch / accept if Reyes grinded out the schedule with 158 games played 700 abs and pulled this stunt...at least he would have legitimately earned it....what he did is simply garbage
in my mind...

and the rationale that its the first mets batting title??? really?
is THAT how you want it? Michael Strahan style?

[Titans74]

Re: Jose Reyes Batting Title

I'm surprised that nobody's mentioned the stunt John Kruk pulled in 1995 with the White Sox. He cracked a single, ran to first, and was immediately replaced by a pinch runner. He immediately retired, thereby ensuring that he would retire with a .300 career average

Dave Miedema

It's probably not been mentioned because not many people these days truly have detailed knowledge of the sport. They only know what ESPN tells them per segment.

[TNTtoys]

Re: Jose Reyes Batting Title

Alot of players sit out entire games at the end of the year.

Very good point. You all know I am a die-hard Mets fan, but the fact that I play fantasy baseball allows me to keep close watch of other teams...

A curious case is Paul Konerko of the White Sox. Given the fact that so many things went wrong for the team this year (i.e. Adam Dunn, Ozzie Guillen's departure, etc.), Paulie remained the most consistent bright spot. Without distraction, he continued to put up his usual 30 HRs, 100 RBIs and .300 BA.

Very oddly, he wrapped up the last weekend series of the season hitting .300 on the nose. With 3 games to go (Mon, Tues, Wed), and at home nonetheless, Konerko sat out every game, despite being healthy.

As Justin mentioned, this type of thing happens all of the time (and in some cases like the one above, to a bigger degree). What I see is that it often goes unnoticed. I for one was annoyed that the starting 1st baseman on my fantasy team sat out these final three games, but how did the home fans feel? We're not talking about a player playing part of a single game and then pulling himself out; we're talking about the star of the team sitting out three games in a row...

[sox83cubs84]

Re: Jose Reyes Batting Title

I'm surprised that nobody's mentioned the stunt John Kruk pulled in 1995 with the White Sox. He cracked a single, ran to first, and was immediately replaced by a pinch runner. He immediately retired, thereby ensuring that he would retire with a .300 career average

Dave Miedema

[TNTtoys]

Re: Jose Reyes Batting Title

The Yankees would have much rather faced a "crashing and burning" team like the Red Sox than a hot team like the Rays.

You do need to make it out of the first round of the playoffs to even be able to face the other playoff team from your division, no matter who it is

Seriously, with a payroll of $209 million, could they possibly have a worse overall pitching staff???

[legaleagle92481]

Re: Jose Reyes Batting Title

Talk about a completely baseless statement.

What's wrong with resting your starters for a meaningless game on the ROAD
with the playoffs only TWO days away? You must have only looked at the
final score since it was hardly an easy W for the Rays.

My statement was intended as sarcastic and the point I was trying to make did not come out. My intended point was people are killing Reyes for pulling himself from a game that had absolutely no meaning for either team involved on the final day of the season. Besides the batting title the guy, (who has a long history of leg injuries including two dl stints in the last two or three months alone) would be risking tens of millions of dollars if he got reinjured in the field or during his three or four more meaningless at bats. Alot of players sit out entire games at the end of the year. The Yankees on the other hand were playing in a game that in part decided the AL Wild Card. The game was fraught with meaning for the other team and the Sox. Under the logic of some of these posters "to respect the integrity of the game" the Yankees should have played their starters the whole game, had their best relievers (Robertson, Soriano and MO) out there and started a pitcher with major league experience such as Phil Hughes. Of course it would be patently absurd to risk an injury or tiring pitchers out in a game that means nothing for your team with two days until the playoffs but no more absurd than risking tens of millions of dollars by playing a full game that meant nothing to noone like people advocate Reyes should have done. So in my opinion if the integrity of the game folks want to kill someone kill the Yankees as well. Instead and this is so frustrating as a Mets fan everyone always just wants to kill the Mets and their players. We have no mvps, no no hitters, maybe five great seasons in almost 50 years of existence and until the other day no batting titles. This meant so much to Mets fans like me to finally see this. We have had so much heartache. In another miserable season this was a bit of a silver lining and the last New York memory of a great player who will most likely be wearing a different uniform next year.

[commando]

Re: Jose Reyes Batting Title

The shenanigans pulled by Reyes, if you even want to call it that, are nothing compared to the tons of stunts that have been pulled over the years in MLB. I would highly recommend reading the "Baseball Hall of Shame" books released in the 1980s. You'll laugh your ass off and won't believe half the things that are in there.

[brewcrew]

Re: Jose Reyes Batting Title

Maybe I'm off-base here, but i assumed Titans was being sarcastic.

[Vintagedeputy]

Re: Jose Reyes Batting Title

Baseless?


Everyone and their blind grandmother knows that up 7-0 in the bottom of the 8th, the Yankees LET TB win to ensure the Redsox were out of the playoffs. Talk about bush league.

That is absolutely ridiculous.

The Yankees would have much rather faced a "crashing and burning" team like the Red Sox than a hot team like the Rays. Nevermind the fact that the Red Sox had their own destiny in their hands, no matter what the Yankees loss might have given them. They could have won against the O's and forced game #163.

[Titans74]

Re: Jose Reyes Batting Title

Talk about a completely baseless statement.

What's wrong with resting your starters for a meaningless game on the ROAD
with the playoffs only TWO days away? You must have only looked at the
final score since it was hardly an easy W for the Rays.

Baseless?


Everyone and their blind grandmother knows that up 7-0 in the bottom of the 8th, the Yankees LET TB win to ensure the Redsox were out of the playoffs. Talk about bush league.

[freddiefreeman5]

Re: Jose Reyes Batting Title

[quote=legaleagle92481;269057]Its every man for himself. He has no obligation to Braun to have stayed in. quote]

I have no idea what that sentence has to do with what I wrote but since you throwed it out there I will be glad to respond.

Reyes has no obligation to Bruan at all.

Reyes does have an obligation to the fans, the sport, the legends that came before him, and the integrity of the game of baseball to not use bush league tactics to win a batting title.