Sports writer who won't vote for Hall of Fame candidates

[Roady]

Re: Sports writer who won't vote for Hall of Fame candidates

It is safe to say that Ozzie Smith was one of the better fielding shortstops of his day.
It is not safe to say that shortstop is one of the more important positions in MLB. Just as important as catcher? More important than 2nd base? More than center field or third base? The historical numbers do not back that up.
Does the ss always have more balls hit his way in a game than the 2nd baseman or the center fielder? Does a good first baseman who can catch nearly everything that is thrown at him less valuable than a ss who has a quick step? Is a good ss better or more important than an outfielder who can cover ground to catch a ball that others would miss?

It is nearly impossible to measure the importance of one defensive position over another defensive position. It all depends on how good the player plays that position.

If I had to pick one defensive position player who could affect the outcome of game more than any other I would pick the catcher.

If you can prove to me that over the last 100+ years that the ss has been involved in more plays than any other position that has affected the outcome of games then I am all ears. I would guess the first baseman is involved in more plays than any other player in baseball. But first basemen are supposed to be slow and lumbering aren't they. Not very important at all. Funny how they are so important to nearly every play.

Opening the door to Cooperstown to one trick ponies like Ozzie leaves the door wide open for others who excelled at defense and defense alone. Or maybe only hit HR's and nothing else. Or only stole bases like Vince Coleman. After all didn't those guys affect the outcome of the games by excelling at one thing?

When Andruw Jones comes up for a vote, arguably the best outfielder of his generation with a ton of those gold gloves you mentioned, there will be those who will say he does not belong in the HOF. Despite having better numbers in almost all offensive categories than Ozzie Smith.

The door is opened and the HOF is watered down as a result.

[commando]

Re: Sports writer who won't vote for Hall of Fame candidates

Well, it's nice to hear that the Gold Glove awards might mean something. Is it safe to say that winning thirteen of them over a thirteen-year period means a player was a dominant fielder during this time? Is it also safe to say that the shortstop position is one of the more important positions in baseball when it comes to fielding skills?

[Hoosier39]

Re: Sports writer who won't vote for Hall of Fame candidates

Gold gloves are one thing but All Star Games should not be a basis for the HOF. It is a popularity contest mostly.

Yep! I think it's funny when it's ballot time and the sports guys give their reasoning of who should and shouldn't get it and bring up the number of All Star appearances. I'd say starting in the 90's is when it became a popularity contest. And I don't know when it was, probably 10 yrs ago or so, but having one rep for each team is a joke. So no, the number of AS appearances really don't mean much to me if it's from the last 20-25 yrs.

GG's on the other hand, I'm ok with having those in the discussion.

[Roady]

Re: Sports writer who won't vote for Hall of Fame candidates

A player with fifteen All-Star Games and thirteen Gold Gloves should be in the Hall of Fame, period. You can say another player should have won the GG or AS spot any given year, but this is impressive. Thirteen Gold Gloves is the most by a shortstop, and fifteen All-Star Teams is second most for shortstops, behind Cal Ripken Jr.

Gold gloves are one thing but All Star Games should not be a basis for the HOF. It is a popularity contest mostly.

[commando]

Re: Sports writer who won't vote for Hall of Fame candidates

A player with fifteen All-Star Games and thirteen Gold Gloves should be in the Hall of Fame, period. You can say another player should have won the GG or AS spot any given year, but this is impressive. Thirteen Gold Gloves is the most by a shortstop, and fifteen All-Star Teams is second most for shortstops, behind Cal Ripken Jr.

[beachpetrol]

Re: Sports writer who won't vote for Hall of Fame candidates

But he did back flips!!!!

...and he's a Wizard. If it weren't for the LOTR films, he wouldn't be in the Hall.

[chakes89]

Re: Sports writer who won't vote for Hall of Fame candidates

Defensive much? Got a large Ozzie collection?

Ozzie Smith spent 19 years in MLB and still only collected 2460 hits, only 793 RBI, a pathetic .262 batting average, and only 1257 runs scored despite actually stealing 580 bases. Pathetic.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/smithoz01.shtml

His career on-base percentage is .337 and slugging percentage is .327.
Pathetic

Ozzie's career fielding percentage is .978. Not as great as everyone "remembers". Was he better than most in his day, yes. Is .978 the best ever? No Right now he is ranked 13th on the all time list. That is good but not the best like people want to believe. http://www.baseball-reference.com/le...s_career.shtml

Allan Trammell was trice the player Ozzie was. And I don't own anything of Trammells in case you are wondering. Not even a Tigers fan.

But he did back flips!!!!

[Roady]

Re: Sports writer who won't vote for Hall of Fame candidates

I accept you Roady . Nothing personal I just like hearing peoples perspectives on why or why not people should be in the hall of fame.

I appreciate that. We all have opinions and we all believe we are right. I always try to be the type of person who will change his mind if evidence supporting another opinion outweighs my own.
I remember Ozzie well during his playing days. And I remember the fans cringing when he came to the plate.

But the fans loved him and that means a lot more than the HOF.

[Sportskansascity]

Re: Sports writer who won't vote for Hall of Fame candidates

I accept you Roady . Nothing personal I just like hearing peoples perspectives on why or why not people should be in the hall of fame.

[Roady]

Re: Sports writer who won't vote for Hall of Fame candidates

And I find it funny that you can't accept others have a different opinion than your own.
Pathetic

[Sportskansascity]

Re: Sports writer who won't vote for Hall of Fame candidates

Not a cardinals fan at all, and honestly only have a few items signed by him. I just like hearing different peoples perspective on the hall of game. I also enjoy people using the term "pathetic" when talking about certain stats. If you ask every single current hall of famer if they believe Ozzie should be in the hall of fame, well over 90% would say yes. Greater than the 75% that is required by writers vote. If you're going to say that he shouldn't be in, I'm guessing you'll say brooks robinson doesn't deserve to be either???? He didn't have the 3,000 hits or 500 homeruns. How about Sandy Koufax??? He didn't win 300 games? I find it funny to hear a guy who has no big league experience (correct me if I'm wrong) talk about any hall of famer's stats as pathetic.

[Roady]

Re: Sports writer who won't vote for Hall of Fame candidates

I don't understand how you say Ozzie Smith shouldn't get in the hall of fame? Who else doesn't belong Roady? I am always interested in people's perspectives when it comes to who should or shouldn't be in the hall of fame.

Defensive much? Got a large Ozzie collection?

Ozzie Smith spent 19 years in MLB and still only collected 2460 hits, only 793 RBI, a pathetic .262 batting average, and only 1257 runs scored despite actually stealing 580 bases. Pathetic.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/smithoz01.shtml

His career on-base percentage is .337 and slugging percentage is .327.
Pathetic

Ozzie's career fielding percentage is .978. Not as great as everyone "remembers". Was he better than most in his day, yes. Is .978 the best ever? No Right now he is ranked 13th on the all time list. That is good but not the best like people want to believe. http://www.baseball-reference.com/le...s_career.shtml

Allan Trammell was trice the player Ozzie was. And I don't own anything of Trammells in case you are wondering. Not even a Tigers fan.

[ShaimOnYou]

Re: Sports writer who won't vote for Hall of Fame candidates

Murray ChASS should have his voting privileges revoked permanently.

Why infect the honor of voting for a potential HOF'er by injecting an opinionated loser into the mix who has verbally displayed more than enough evidence he's not worthy of the task?

Even though I agree with keeping known cheaters out, there has to be a rational thought in determining fairness with regards to the "era" and the players who played the game right. Murray's position is just plain wrong, amateurish.

[Sportskansascity]

Re: Sports writer who won't vote for Hall of Fame candidates

I don't understand how you say Ozzie Smith shouldn't get in the hall of fame? Who else doesn't belong Roady? I am always interested in people's perspectives when it comes to who should or shouldn't be in the hall of fame.

[helf35]

Re: Sports writer who won't vote for Hall of Fame candidates

I believe Larkin is a HOF'er. Silver Sluggers, Gold Gloves and an MVP. He also has the All Star nods. He doesn't have any sexy milestone numbers but he was one of the most complete SS in the game. Ozzie on the other hand was a one trick pony but he did have 13 gold gloves and 15 all star nods. Personally I think Ozzie should have been a year 15 candidate at best.