2006 Cleveland Browns Game Jerseys

[RMoody]

Re: 2006 Cleveland Browns Game Jerseys

Did you not read my orginal post? I even stated Gary absolutely practiced in #23 five months ago. That photo you show isn't even a game style jersey, so what your photo was meant to prove, I'll never understand.

You seem to want to overlook he was selling this as a game used jersey but are continuing to act strangely personally obligated to speak to the orginins of them.

I don't care if you want to defend it as a press conference or publicity jersey, because that's not what he was selling an that's the problem. When I mentioned issued, he pressed game used and lowered the price.

So lets actually go over what happened and take a look at what this jersey actually would represent, which would be very historic peice of NFL lore.

Gary spent three years with the Browns, in 2005 and 2006 where he wore #24. In 2006 he tore both he's patella tendons in what was a freak injury. Gary himself said they never tore, just pulled from the bone. He is one of thee players, I know of, to ever have this injury. Wendell Davis and Greg Child's are the others, none of which has ever came back to play in an NFL game, only practice or camp.

As for Gary, in late July 2007 he returned to practice, but with no contact or 1 on 1 drills. Gary never suited for any preseason or regular season games and was placed on IR late October.

So this jersey represents a modern medical miricle, a player that was told he would never walk again, then spent months in a wheelchair......back to NFL caliber play.


Let's forget he never suited up for a game that year, in that number or with that team.....YOU know it's a legit jersey. After all, the Browns had a press conferance the day they cut him, and made that jersey just so he hold it up? Or wait, did he sign autographs at the Cleveland Clinic at a fan day wearing it? Perhaps he wore it hidden in the locker room during a pre season away game?


This place is meant to help people and collectors, it's why I joined. Plenty of stuff I'll never know that I learned here, much more still left to go. I've found out stuff I had was fake, people I bought from had issues.....but what we shouldn't ever allow is to harbor a continued misleading of items. While it may not be your intent, it's how I perceive it. I can't see anything that was to be gained by brining this back up, so again......it's odd you elected to.

[Dawg Pound]

Re: 2006 Cleveland Browns Game Jerseys

Rmoody,

When Gary Baxter signed with the browns his orginal number was 23. Seriously, ive been reading your posts for years. You dont think a player has never changed a number? Just because he didnt wear it on the field for a game doesnt mean the club didnt make a jersey. When he signed he was number 23 before he changed. I honestly dont care enough to figure out the exact date but here is a picture of him wearing # 23 in training camp. Your jersey was probably made for a preseason game or press conference. The browns also wear game jerseys for public events but the sizes are normally larger than what they wear on the field.

The point of my post was to let you guys know in my opinion you all bought "picked over" jerseys from a seller who doesnt know what the difference is between game used, game issued, game authentic. But a 100% certainty the jersey came from the cleveland browns locker room. They are not fakes.

They were certainly mis-labeled... But my point is the common person who doesnt follow this website or other similar to this one doesnt know what the hell the differece is between game worn vs game issued.

You guys are both seasoned game used collectors. We all need to do our homework. Turns out this seller had real jerseys from the Browns. He just doesnt know anything about selling game worn jerseys.

It sucks he turned out to be a shady business man. I'm not defending his actions. I'm sharing my opinion that the jerseys were legit.

[gingi79]

Re: 2006 Cleveland Browns Game Jerseys

Emann, I'm going to have to disagree, respectfully

This man stole money from me. He sold a jersey, never mailed it, was shown it wasn't real with undeniable proof and disappeared.

RMoody showed him another jersey with an issue. Furnished proof. No reply.

He's been banned from this forum.

I have no doubt some of the jerseys he sold are real. Lou Lampson has sold real items, so has JO Sports. There are real Custom Crafted hockey game worn jerseys and the guys from Project Bullpen have some genuine items as well.

His dishonesty and thievery during my transaction with him has no bearing on any the validity of other jerseys he sold but this hobby depends on reputation and he belongs in the slop with Lou and Jason.

[emann]

Re: 2006 Cleveland Browns Game Jerseys

It's not about how many can tell the differance between a jersey, it's about being truthful in what you sell. Ignorance may be to blame for some of the purchases, but NOT on the hands of the buyer.

. . . on a practical level, there unfortunately needs to always be responsibility in the hands of the buyer to watch out for himself. Caveat Emptor.

I also think you seriously misunderstood the previous post by "Dawg Pound." It doesn't read like he's defending anyone or the jerseys you were offered, merely saying he had a different experience with items from that seller.

I also bought a Browns jersey from that seller (which I also photomatched—from the seller's pics before I bought it). I don't know the seller, I didn't see the jerseys he offered to you, and I'm not vouching for him (and I honestly don't care about the Browns, I bought it for the player).

BUT, I would agree with Dawg Pound that it appears there were some legit jerseys in the batch and any collectors who had a different experience than you shouldn't get attacked with reasoning like this "if your elect to come in here and take personal responsibility for the authenticity of items, that's just as bad as selling them."

I don't think attacking other collectors who are merely offering advice/feedback helps facilitate a positive forum and simply makes reading thru the posts very trying for everybody.

[RMoody]

Re: 2006 Cleveland Browns Game Jerseys

But I can tell you 100% that these jerseys came from the cleveland browns locker room.

I was able to photo-match all of the jerseys I acquired hence why I can say that they were 100% legit (you can search my previous postings to see examples).

Let's face it, how many people in the real world could define the difference between a game-issued jersey vs. a game worn jersey?

I have learned alot here and do feel I am an expert at identifying game worn Cleveland Browns jerseys.

But to end my post this all could of / should have been avoided if the buyer just did his home work up!

This is a joke right?

So you're now willing to not only defend the seller, but personally vouch since you photo matched every jersey you got?

So with that in mind, go back to my post, show me where Gary Baxter wore #23 for the Browns in an NFL game, with your self proclaimed "expertise".

It's not about how many can tell the differance between a jersey, it's about being truthful in what you sell. Ignorance may be to blame for some of the purchases, but NOT on the hands of the buyer.

Mark tried to scam me, period. He tried to sell me a jersey bearing a number that was never worn by that player with the team. End of story. When he was asked about it, he offered it at a lower price. Never once did he stop or question what he was selling.

His banning took some time, yet notice his absence in defending himself. Honestly, while not my call, if your elect to come in here and take personal responbility for the autenticity of items, that's just as bad as selling them.

[Dawg Pound]

Re: 2006 Cleveland Browns Game Jerseys

I do not know the poster of the jerseys nor do I agree with the business practices described with-in this post. But I can tell you 100% that these jerseys came from the cleveland browns locker room.

A few years back I stumbled upon an ebay posting of 5 legit game worn browns jerseys. I contacted the seller and we ended up meeting for breakfest the next day. This guy and the poster of the jerseys on this thread bought all the inventory from an "un-named" source from the Cleveland Browns.

The lots were split into 2 mostly based on the color of the jerseys. They paid roughly $50 per jersey and they got all of the jerseys that no one else from the organization wanted. Almost all of the jerseys came from 2006-2008 with a few older ones in the mix. I was able to photo-match all of the jerseys I acquired hence why I can say that they were 100% legit (you can search my previous postings to see examples). It was clear as day that he did not know what he was doing and luckliy I was able to cash in.

The person on this thread held the jerseys I believe in his personal collection. I had been hunting him down for about two years until he finally posted some on ebay. Based upon the pictures from his ebay posts I am convinced that he was the second purchaser the person I met with discussed. After a brief discussion, I decided he again did not have much experience,however he thought the jerseys were worth a fortune. I actually recommended he attempt to sell them on this site. So I apologize if I brought this unpleasant experience to this community.

I believe this seller honestly has no experience in the game used market place. Let's face it, how many people in the real world could define the difference between a game-issued jersey vs. a game worn jersey? Most people probably think we are freaks.

Everybody on this sight should know by now that you need to do your homework on game worn jerseys. Even nfl auctions can't get it right.

I think this was a classic example of a seller not knowing what he was doing selling to an "expert" gameuseduniverse trained buyer. I dont make alot of posts on this site but I do read it almost daily. I have learned alot here and do feel I am an expert at identifying game worn Cleveland Browns jerseys. But to end my post this all could of / should have been avoided if the buyer just did his home work up front. It should be a good lesson to all of us.

I'm glad to see the seller was banned and you finally were able to get your money back!

[gingi79]

Re: 2006 Cleveland Browns Game Jerseys

My bank may not be quick but they are thorough. Nearly 3 months to the day I filed, they researched this scam artist and found in my favor for a charge back. I see he has been banned as well. Good riddance.

Updating this post in hopes if he tries to come back, it's recent enough to save others from my experience.

[short84]

Re: 2006 Cleveland Browns Game Jerseys

Hope you get your money back. Members like this need to be banned.

[gingi79]

Re: 2006 Cleveland Browns Game Jerseys

Sadly I had to follow through and file a complaint with my credit card. After my initial post, Mark offered to make it right but never followed through. I've saved all our correspondence and the proof he is selling Issued jerseys as game used even though the player NEVER wore this colored jersey in a game.

Other collectors posted similar issues and the emails I've received with similar problems plus exactly zero responses to this thread since Mark has been called out and proven to be selling items that are not what he claims lead me to believe, buyer beware.

[Phil316]

Re: 2006 Cleveland Browns Game Jerseys

I've given you ample chances to rectify this problem, now I'm forced to notify my credit card company in order to dispute the charge.

Smart man right there. The best defense is always pay with a credit card especially when buying online.

[RMoody]

Re: 2006 Cleveland Browns Game Jerseys

For the record, I had a major authenticity issue go without resolution on the Baxter jersey I inqured about above.

I was sent photos of a Away Browns Gary Baxter jersey, bearing #23. When I approached him about the fact Gary only practiced in #23 but never wore it in a game, he also didnt play in 2007. I asked about the possibility the jersey was issued, with no response. I asked again and despite an email back, my points were not addressed.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BaxtGa20.htm

The jersey which was also on Ebay, 151589999983.

The same photos were sent to me that appear in that listing.

This now makes two (at best) game issued jerseys being sold here as worn. Not to mention the Ebay issue.

I'm sure Mark has added to some people collections but I elected to not pursue the jerseys I did want from him.

[gingi79]

Re: 2006 Cleveland Browns Game Jerseys

Just refund my payment Mark. You emailed me, admitted guilt and showed remorse, why haven't you sent the refund? I can prove this jersey is issued at best, do the right thing please.

[gingi79]

Re: 2006 Cleveland Browns Game Jerseys

Mark:

We spoke about a Ken Dorsey jersey. Everything looked great. Nice patch, Ken had no NFL career so it's a fair price. I'm a huge U fan, he was the last guy to win the National Title at QB, I sent you payment. Due to USPS restrictions and holidays, I had 3 days before you could ship.I take this time to research the jersey.

Turns out, Ken never played a game in a Browns white jersey during the season it was tagged, or the next one (when they didn't wear the patch). Then Dorsey changed his number. I send this info to you, I'm willing to take a partial refund since I've proven it's an issued or clipboard holding jersey at best and was definitely never worn in a game . No reply. A few days later, I tell you it's not game worn, I can prove it and you won't accept a partial refund so please refund me full cost. You reply "We have the jersey he wore the next season". I remind you. he never played a game that year in this color jersey either. No reply.

You never mailed the jersey either. PayPal requires me to prove I mailed it back to you but you never mailed the jersey and therefore I can't mail it back to you so they can't protect me under Buyer Protection

So, I'm out a few hundred bucks unless you do the right thing. You'll notice I tried to rectify this for a while (see posts from me on GUU), no reply from you. I cannot speak about any other jerseys but the one I paid for but that one is NOT worn in a game and since being notified, you have ignored my proof, PayPal's inquiry and never mailed the item to me.

I'd accept you knew no better during the initial posting and had you sent a refund, I'd never mention it.During a bulk purchase as you proclaimed this was, it's a likely scenario that this kind of jersey was included.

I've given you ample chances to rectify this problem, now I'm forced to notify my credit card company in order to dispute the charge.

[gingi79]

Re: 2006 Cleveland Browns Game Jerseys

Last chance to email and resolve our transaction before I have to publicize the issues. Do the right thing.

[buckeyenuts]

Re: 2006 Cleveland Browns Game Jerseys

We have multiple Roye jerseys and a Baxter. Sorry no Prentice.

Email me at mark@impact-america.com and I can send photos of jerseys.

Thanks again.