Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

[commando]

I'm sure we've all lost things in the past.... Our house key, our receipt for the cans of tuna we bought last week, and maybe even our cell phone. But SHAME ON YOU if you lose the team/company paperwork that goes with your newer game used item!

I rarely, IF EVER, buy an item where the paperwork was supposedly lost. The exception for me is if it is a vintage item, which is easy enough to judge on its own merits. Even so, it is a shame when the chain of provenance disappears.

I will not touch newer, lightly-used items with a ten-foot pole if the paperwork was lost. I think oftentimes that the seller never intended to sell the item, and felt the paperwork wasn't important (kind of the same principle as adding patches to a GU jersey or wearing it around because you thought you'd never sell it).

You can do what you want with an item you own.... But be ready to pay the price when the piece is altered or the paperwork is lost.

[David]

Re: Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

I agree. I've heard people, including on here, say paper work means nothing to them and that they just toss it away. That's a perfectly fine personal choice and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with those sentiments. Just realize that when you resell, many bidders may not share those sentiments.

[yankees506]

Re: Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

As someone who has lost many loa's over the years Ive always known that even items that come with holograms attached will have to be discounted when I lose the LOA. That being said Ive become more careful in regards to storing loa's, to me an loa on a solid item isnt a dealbreaker.

[jppopma]

Re: Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

People need to remember that when selling a jersey, it is not what you feel is/was important....but what the buyer feels is important.

[G1X]

Re: Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

People need to remember that when selling a jersey, it is not what you feel is/was important....but what the buyer feels is important.

Well said. While paperwork seems to be a real important priority to some collectors, it has very little bearing in the decision-making process of other collectors. There are many in the hobby in which their purchases are not predicated on paperwork, and paperwork has little or no bearing on what they feel a particular piece is worth.

Sure, you might lose a number of potential buyers if you lose your paperwork, but for those who do not collect paper with their game-used items, it just doesn't matter whether you have that piece of paper when selling your item. You might see the paperwork as holding value, but there are a number of collectors in the hobby who put little or no value on the paper, or perhaps just don't care one way or the other whether paperwork accompanies the item.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

Always looking for World Football League game-worn items.

[commando]

Re: Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

Well said. While paperwork seems to be a real important priority to some collectors, it has very little bearing in the decision-making process of other collectors. There are many in the hobby in which their purchases are not predicated on paperwork, and paperwork has little or no bearing on what they feel a particular piece is worth.

Sure, you might lose a number of potential buyers if you lose your paperwork, but for those who do not collect paper with their game-used items, it just doesn't matter whether you have that piece of paper when selling your item. You might see the paperwork as holding value, but there are a number of collectors in the hobby who put little or no value on the paper, or perhaps just don't care one way or the other whether paperwork accompanies the item.

Mark,

You're speaking like a pre-1990s collector, which I know you are. And regarding these older items, I agree with you 100%. But what about these newer megastar jerseys and helmets with no provenance? How does a legit, game-used Mark Sanchez or Tim Tebow jersey make its way into the hobby without documentation? If a potential buyer believes the "I lost the paperwork" story, surely they won't pay the same amount as a jersey with a team letter.

[gingi79]

Re: Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

Every JO item came with paperwork.....

The LOA thing has been going on since the 1980's. Autographs and game worns alike. Buyers want to know who to sue when and if something is fake (which a large number of non-collectors feel includes the majority of our items thanks to Operation Foul Ball and the ever popular "Yeah, you photomatched it but how do you KNOW it's real") I swear, pooping in someone else's cereal is the number one hobby people indulge in today.

[G1X]

Re: Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

Mark,

You're speaking like a pre-1990s collector, which I know you are. And regarding these older items, I agree with you 100%. But what about these newer megastar jerseys and helmets with no provenance? How does a legit, game-used Mark Sanchez or Tim Tebow jersey make its way into the hobby without documentation? If a potential buyer believes the "I lost the paperwork" story, surely they won't pay the same amount as a jersey with a team letter.

Yes, I mostly collect pre-1990 (actually have a lot of stuff from the 1990s as well), but I have a few current-era items in my collection sourced directly from legitimate team sources in legitimate purchases that are game-worn items. For example, I recently picked up a Stephen Stasburg BP top and Ryan Zimmerman game jersey from the Nats game-used kiosk at Nationals Park. There are no holograms or paperwork, and the team sold them as "team issued" since the authenticator wasn't there when the jerseys were removed, nor was he present to "collect" them for MLB hologram purposes . Both of these jerseys are "no doubters" with nice game use.

I have several Atlanta Falcons jerseys of perennial Pro Bowl receiver Roddy White. All have paperwork except for one that was obtained legitimately from the team, but without paperwork. The jersey without the paperwork shows great game use and is a "no doubter" as well.

I have made several team buys over the past 10 years, and while most of the jerseys were commons, there were occasional star jerseys in the mix (including at least two players who are now in the Hall-of-Fame). In making bulk buys from teams, I generally do not ask for team documentation since most of the shirts are "commons" and it is not worth the hassle to me or the team, but even when a star player or two are included, I still do not ask.

When all is said and done, legitimate stuff still gets out into the hobby without paperwork, and those who feel comfortable with what they see will not hesitate in making the purchase at a fair market value, regardless of whether there is accompanying paperwork.

As for me, I am not looking to sell any of the above mentioned jerseys, so why should paperwork really matter to me anyway, especially since it doesn't matter to me to begin with on any item? I do not think that I am alone in this regard.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

Always looking for World Football League game-worn items.

[Shipp_96]

Re: Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

I will say though I agree wholeheartedly with the paperwork argument = increase in value, however there are some schools and NFL teams that simply do not provide that. The Seattle Seahawks are infamous for not giving you anything other than an ID equipment tag they have inside of their jerseys and helmets. If you keep the receipt from your purchase that certainly helps, but you will not get anything else from the team.

Ditto for many Universities. I cannot tell you how many of my helmets I have won in auctions that ship directly from the school's equipment room, and they come with nothing but an email confirming I won and a packing slip. Sometimes when you buy from the school on the spot (like at a garage sale or student book store sale) you will not even get that.

I love paperwork as much as the next person and keep all of mine, but the bottom line is many times it is still not provided even in 2012.

[commando]

Re: Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

I agree with both of you guys. My original point was more along the lines of "Here's a great Derek Jeter jersey that I bought from Steiner, but I LOST the paperwork." Huh? How do you LOSE the paperwork on a Jeter????

[David]

Re: Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

I've bought autographs from reputable places like Lelands where there was no LOA, and printed out a copy of the auction listing as record. That has worked fine and resale as the auction listing pictured the autograph.

[legaleagle92481]

Re: Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

I think some people are confusing the issue. Most items are not unique. If you buy a Cano jersey from Steiner there are many others also out there from Steiner. You buy a Durant jersey from MeiGray there are several others out there from Meigray. If you lose the LOA your Cano or Durant jersey is going to sell for less than a jersey that comes with the Steiner or Meigray LOA respectively. Alot of collectors pay a premium for an item because it is from those companies. The premium is lost if you don't have the LOA so the item will lose value.

[G1X]

Re: Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

I think some people are confusing the issue. Most items are not unique. If you buy a Cano jersey from Steiner there are many others also out there from Steiner. You buy a Durant jersey from MeiGray there are several others out there from Meigray. If you lose the LOA your Cano or Durant jersey is going to sell for less than a jersey that comes with the Steiner or Meigray LOA respectively. Alot of collectors pay a premium for an item because it is from those companies. The premium is lost if you don't have the LOA so the item will lose value.

The premium is lost only to those who put value in the paperwork to begin with and are willing to pay a premium for those items because of the paperwork. Again, not all collectors put value on the paperwork and might feel perfectly comfortable with the particular item because of their experience, knowledge, and research on the items that they collect. For those collectors, price and paperwork are usually mutually exclusive.

I understand the original point of the thread and I certainly don't disagree with what is being said. My point is that there are collectors out there who will buy your items at a fair market price even if you lost the paperwork (or regardless of whether you ever had paperwork).

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

Always looking for World Football League game-worn items.

[David]

Re: Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

When you're auctioning your jersey on eBay, you want both types of collectors to be bidding. It's not an either/or proposition, but a both/and when you want to collectors bidding. Whether or not you dislike paperwork personally, you want all the bidders and their money you can get at resale time. You can both hate paperwork and keep it for future bidders' benefit-- and your personal profit.

[marino13]

Re: Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

The premium is lost only to those who put value in the paperwork to begin with and are willing to pay a premium for those items because of the paperwork. Again, not all collectors put value on the paperwork and might feel perfectly comfortable with the particular item because of their experience, knowledge, and research on the items that they collect. For those collectors, price and paperwork are usually mutually exclusive.

I understand the original point of the thread and I certainly don't disagree with what is being said. My point is that there are collectors out there who will buy your items at a fair market price even if you lost the paperwork (or regardless of whether you ever had paperwork).

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

Always looking for World Football League game-worn items.

If you can point those so called "collectors" my way, and when I sold them "fair market value" of the Brooklyn bridge which connected to the newly Brooklyn Nets - whom will play the entire NBA league, which will give me access a lot of their game used jersey off their back - you will get 25% finder fee.



No one in their right mind would pay for anything "fair market value" without some kind of paper works. Unless I saw Jeter handed the bat over to a person, and then that person wants to sell it to me for $500 - then that bat will forever stay in my collection!