I'm so darn mad!

[Vintagedeputy]

Re: I'm so darn mad!

Thank you to those who agree with me that there is nothing wrong with emailing the seller and trying to end the auction early.

What's important to remember in the example that I brought up is that I left everything in the seller's control:

1) He had the ability to decline to end the auction early.

2) I did not lowball him, tell him that his bat was junk, or a store model, or was worth less because it was cracked.

3) I asked him what his best price was and he named that price and I agreed. I didn't haggle him down one dime. I agreed to his price as I thought it was more than fair.

Had I had a few more hours, he probably would have cancelled the auction as I thought he would and this would be a moot point. It was just my bad luck that 2 hours after we agreed on a price, a higher bid was placed. The seller saw the money and went for it.

You win some, you lose some.

[soxbats]

Re: I'm so darn mad!

How about thank you for everyone's thoughts whether you agree or disagree, that is what make this forum enjoyable.

We all can agree that people break the rules on e-bay in this regard, but that does not make it right or fair. Further, for every hardened bidder that knows the tricks (like those on this site) there are 10 or even 100 who do not and get extremely frustrated when they play by the rules, bid, and have the item ended early. That affects all of us who sell because it undermines the fairness of the process and may cause people not to bid in the future. (See for example the comment above about sending money and not getting the item, I feel that pain)

The seller who ends the auction early cannot be treated like a normal seller becuase he/she is willing to violate the contract with ebay. Ironically, you are complaining about someone breaking his promise to you to break his contract with ebay and other protential bidders. Further, a condition of the contract was that seller would end the auction and that did not occur.

Now, before someone knocks me off this high horse, I will admit that I have done exactly what you have done. (In my defense I will say that I did it only because others had obtained bats I wanted by having sellers end auctions early in the past). Someone above noted that you might get caught in shill bidding. I totally agree and, further, given my statements about the type of seller I am dealing with, I assume this. That risk is the same risk you have when answering a classified ad or trying to talk down a dealer. I reserve these type of offers for things that I simply cannot live without and assume I am going to pay a bit more than I might have had to pay at auction.

Also, one last piece of advice, I always insist that the auction be ended immediately and check to make sure this happens.

Great topic and thanks for the lively debate.

[Vintagedeputy]

Re: I'm so darn mad!

soxbats,

I appreciate your comments and all those either for or against the concept of emailing the seller. I too, was a person who bid fair and square and took my chances until others emailed sellers and bought items out from under me. I thought about it and realized that in the world of the disconnected internet, the main thing for me at the end of the day was whether the item I wanted ended up in my hands. Sounds cold but isnt that the way it really is? Do we really care that someone 9 states away was going to bid on the item? We want it because we want it, plain and simple. A week later, when you are holding that bat, do you feel any remorse for the guy who didnt win? Of course not. Like everything in life, its a dog eat dog world. We can all try and be sweet and play fair with each other but at the end of the day, we still want that bat, or whatever the item is.
I think that the main point here to remember is, there's no harm in asking. As I stated earlier, if a seller declines to end an auction earlier, I dont hound them. I politely thank them and then decide if I want to get into a bidding war. I feel that emailing the seller is simply another buying strategy at my disposal. If it doesn't work, I move to plan B.
I appreciate everyone's comments here and their thoughts. Its a very thought provoking discussion. While people have the right to agree or disagree, I enjoy all of the input. I do feel that the one member who said that he was happy that my deal fell through was making a childish comment and it wasn't necessary.

[3arod13]

Re: I'm so darn mad!

Ebay provides us a forum and gives us the opportunity to show the world what we have to sell. It opens the door for so many more people to see what we have and for us to make much more than selling local. However, as you stated, it's the way it is. Ebay does many things to look out for themselves...to make their money...and continues to ignore and to let fake things sit on ebay knowing that when it sells, they'll get their cut.

Yes, it's like having the angel on your left shoulder, and the devil on your right shoulder. One saying doing it and one saying don't.

Is it right that others do it, and you shouldn't? For those of us who do it, I think when we all make out, were ok with it. However, when someone does it to us and we lose something we wanted, then of course we hate it happening.

In the end, it's just the way it is.

[5kRunner]

Re: I'm so darn mad!

In the end, it's just the way it is.

Agreed. I don't like it all the time. I've just accepted that is what has to be done to win.

To be honest, I saw the Grace bat that Vintage got earlier this month. I had thought about bidding. He emailed the seller and got him to sell it early and got a great deal. Congrats to him.

[Vintagedeputy]

Re: I'm so darn mad!

5krunner,

I didnt know anyone else was interested in that bat. I do feel a little bad knowing that someone from here had an interest in it. If I remember correctly, it had one poor picture and a starting bid of like $9.99? I'm not sure.

Grace was one of those guys that I always liked because he was just a ballplayer, plain and simple. I'd have prefered a Cubs bat, but this one is just as nice. I emailed the seller and asked him what he was looking to get and he said he wanted $50. I figured that his price was more than fair. He sent me some additional pics and the bat was every bit as nice as I had hoped. It took him a while to end the auction, and I got a little nervous.

ps - the seller told me that he got the bat from a former teammate, Scott Service. I recently wrote to Service and I'm hoping he can tell me about the bat.


Jim

[bigjimsguitars]

Re: I'm so darn mad!

Vintagedeputy:

I'm not trying to be a smart ass, but think about it, you are asking the seller to break the rules of ebay and circumvent their fees in an attempt to buy something for what apparently is only a good deal for you in the end and then post it on an open forum?

My point is that both you and the seller have dirty hands. You expect the seller to be fair when you attempted to negotiate an illegal contract. In other words, you asked some one to cheat (by cutting Ebay out of the loop...you would have never known about the bat if not for Ebay) and then expect that person to be ethical?

Look I'm not judging you, but please take it for what it is....

[Vintagedeputy]

Re: I'm so darn mad!

Vintagedeputy:

I'm not trying to be a smart ass, but think about it, you are asking the seller to break the rules of ebay and circumvent their fees in an attempt to buy something for what apparently is only a good deal for you in the end and then post it on an open forum?

My point is that both you and the seller have dirty hands. You expect the seller to be fair when you attempted to negotiate an illegal contract. In other words, you asked some one to cheat (by cutting Ebay out of the loop...you would have never known about the bat if not for Ebay) and then expect that person to be ethical?

Look I'm not judging you, but please take it for what it is....

bigjim - I understand what you are saying, and I respect your opinion. Is it the most ethical thing? Probably not. Does everyone do it? sure they do. I posted the story here not to be judged but merely because I wanted to share the experience. I guess I put more faith in a man's word to another man than a man's online contract with ebay. This time I lost.

Dem's the breaks! But thank you for your opinion.

Jim

[bigjimsguitars]

Re: I'm so darn mad!

bigjim - I understand what you are saying, and I respect your opinion. Is it the most ethical thing? Probably not. Does everyone do it? sure they do. I posted the story here not to be judged but merely because I wanted to share the experience. I guess I put more faith in a man's word to another man than a man's online contract with ebay. This time I lost.

Dem's the breaks! But thank you for your opinion.

Jim

Fair enough, but just because some do it, doesn't promote it to the right thing to do and it's not the American Way, but it will if more do it....

Yes, it's hard not to give in to temptation when there is something that you really want and I too have been on both sides of it, as I have sent emails to sellers asking for their bottom line and as a seller have received my fair share.

So in a sense I'm a hypocrite!

[5kRunner]

Re: I'm so darn mad!

Vintage,
I was on the fence about bidding on it, so don't feel bad. You are right, there was one crappy picture and not a lot of info.

I had also just bought a Derrek Lee bat and knew my wife would freak if I bought another bat so soon after my first purchase. So I was a little hesitant. It was totally my fault, I should have ask for pics first and then decided if I was going to bid. I'm new, so I'm learning.

Like I said, congrats on getting such a great deal.

[Vintagedeputy]

Re: I'm so darn mad!

Fair enough, but just because some do it, doesn't promote it to the right thing to do and it's not the American Way, but it will if more do it....

Yes, it's hard not to give in to temptation when there is something that you really want and I too have been on both sides of it, as I have sent emails to sellers asking for their bottom line and as a seller have received my fair share.

So in a sense I'm a hypocrite!

Bigjim - I wouldnt say that you are a hypocrite. We all have our own moral barometer is to what we feel is right and wrong. I personally see nothing wrong with emailing a seller to try to work out a deal. Others may see differently, and that's their perogative.

Ya know, this hobby can be a true test of your moral standing on various issues. Yesterday, I answered a local ad from a guy selling a Cal Ripken rookie card. He clearly stated in his ad that he wanted $15. I asked for pictures and he sent me pics of the most well centered, sharp cornered Ripken rookie card that I have seen in a long time. I immediately replied back that I wanted it and met him a few hours later. I bought the card and it was every bit as nice as the pics.

Now, if I had that card graded (and I will), its will be worth far more than $15. Did I do anything wrong by only paying $15? Nope. I agreed to his price. Now some people would say that I should tell him its worth at least a hundred and offer him that. I say no. I can live with that.

[Vintagedeputy]

Re: I'm so darn mad!

Vintage,
I was on the fence about bidding on it, so don't feel bad. You are right, there was one crappy picture and not a lot of info.

I had also just bought a Derrek Lee bat and knew my wife would freak if I bought another bat so soon after my first purchase. So I was a little hesitant. It was totally my fault, I should have ask for pics first and then decided if I was going to bid. I'm new, so I'm learning.

Like I said, congrats on getting such a great deal.

5krunner - thank you. If you are ever in Richmond and would like to see the bat in person, please feel free to call on me.

Jim

[5kRunner]

Re: I'm so darn mad!

5krunner - thank you. If you are ever in Richmond and would like to see the bat in person, please feel free to call on me.

Jim

Thanks Jim!

[bigjimsguitars]

Re: I'm so darn mad!

Bigjim - I wouldnt say that you are a hypocrite. We all have our own moral barometer is to what we feel is right and wrong. I personally see nothing wrong with emailing a seller to try to work out a deal. Others may see differently, and that's their perogative.

Ya know, this hobby can be a true test of your moral standing on various issues. Yesterday, I answered a local ad from a guy selling a Cal Ripken rookie card. He clearly stated in his ad that he wanted $15. I asked for pictures and he sent me pics of the most well centered, sharp cornered Ripken rookie card that I have seen in a long time. I immediately replied back that I wanted it and met him a few hours later. I bought the card and it was every bit as nice as the pics.

Now, if I had that card graded (and I will), its will be worth far more than $15. Did I do anything wrong by only paying $15? Nope. I agreed to his price. Now some people would say that I should tell him its worth at least a hundred and offer him that. I say no. I can live with that.

Your Ripken card story is completely different that the ebay thing.

Look, I get as mad as heck at ebay as a seller, but at the same time it offers me an opportunity to sell things in a global market and for that I pay the price of admission.

Would have you be aware or known of the Trammell Bat if not for ebay? My point is simple, to circumvent ebay to do a deal outside of them is morally and ethically wrong no matter how it is spun.

Yes, I used to send emails on items of interest to see if a deal could be struck at a better price for me. But guess what, I never did actually complete a deal as a buyer and now think better of doing so in the future.

Moreover, is it fair to those who stand by and wait to the last minute to bid and then see some seller pull it to sell to someone off/outside of ebay?

Yes there are legit reasons to end and auction early and in my case it's on items that I have on consignment and the owner gets cold feet on me...it makes me look bad.

Another Trammell Bat will pop up and maybe without a nasty crack as the one in question has.

Peace

[bigtruck260]

Re: I'm so darn mad!

Still having issues with this thread. If there seller has set the opening bid on an item, and someone makes an offer to end early, the seller should at LEAST have the courtesy to tell the high bidder and see if he wants to counter. Ebay is not like the classifieds...Classified ads do not charge you after the sale, and bids are usually not made public.

If a buyer places a legit bid on an item and is winning - past the reserve price, then that buyer has staked his claim in that item until he is outbid. If someone sees the item and wants it, they should have to out bid the high bidder in order to win the item. Like I said, the seller who did this to me is blacklisted in my book. I don' care if he is giving stuff away...I will not patronize his stores or his eBay account...and I spend a lot of money.