If you paid BIG $ for JO's Cutler or Sanchez

[TriplexXxSports]

Re: If you paid BIG $ for JO's Cutler or Sanchez

Excuse me, but for $685, i'm sure the buyer was expecting the same cut jersey, the Bears QB wears !

The buyer saw the same pictures in the listing, as well as the same description, along with 8 additional pictures of the jersey at their request.

If you have problems then contact me direct.

[tjm5711]

Re: If you paid BIG $ for JO's Cutler or Sanchez

These are direct quotes from the Ebay listing !


" The jersey has all of the proper identifiers, and alterations made for Jay and the Chicago Bears."

Really ? It doesn't have the indentifier I mentioned !



"This is an actual game jersey directly from the Chicago Bears"

Actual game jersey from 2005 or'06. maybe 2007 ! One problem, Jay Cutler didn't play for the Bears then !

[ChrisCavalier]

Re: If you paid BIG $ for JO's Cutler or Sanchez

Hello Tom,

While I am not responding to the jersey you reference in this thread, please note the following rule regarding posting here:

In instances where a forum member is identifying an item in the hobby they believe to have issues, the poster should clearly state their findings in the form of an opinion and provide adequate rationale for why they believe there is an issue. When possible, we recommend that the poster questioning an item attempt to contact the seller of the item and allow at least 24 hours for the seller to reply before posting. This will prevent postings that may be generated based on misunderstandings of an item. In addition, while this forum is designed to help educate collectors, we will not allow comments that accuse entities in the hobby of participating in any form of criminal wrong-doing. Any posts suggesting criminal wrong-doing should be brought to the attention of the moderators immediately.

There were some comments you made in the thread that have been edited to allow for a focus on your observations about the jersey. However, please make sure to follow the rules in the future and, if warranted, provide your information in the form of an opinion. In addition, the forum is intended for educational purposes and a number of posts seemed to be going to a personal level. If there is something to be learned about the jersey that can help collectors than it will be allowed. However, please make sure that is the intent of the posts and things are not taken to a personal level.

Lastly, the purpose of this thread has seems to have been changed from its original purpose. In the future, if posted in accordance with the forum rules and is for eduactional and not personal reasons, it would likely be more appropriate to create a separate thread rather than changing the focus of an existing thread.

Thank you for your cooperation.

[tjm5711]

Re: If you paid BIG $ for JO's Cutler or Sanchez

Ok Chris, no problem. I was trying to keep it off the personal level, but it kind of drifted that way. I appreciate you leaving my postings up, and think they will help buyers in the future ! Being new here, I didn't intentionally violate the rules, but if I did I apologize. Thanks again, and I appreciate your time !

[CollectGU]

Re: If you paid BIG $ for JO's Cutler or Sanchez

The buyer saw the same pictures in the listing, as well as the same description, along with 8 additional pictures of the jersey at their request.

If you have problems then contact me direct.

I just read this thread. He does make a compelling case for this jersey not being issued for Cultler...

Dave

[otismalibu]

Re: If you paid BIG $ for JO's Cutler or Sanchez

I have a couple of Sixers game worn jerseys that I'm customizing into Dr. J. jerseys. So now I can list them as Dr. J. game worn Sixers jerseys on eBay. Cool. I should be able to make out pretty well.

I'm going to start the bidding out at $1000, even though I paid under $50 for each of them. Future profit was in the back of my mind when I acquired them.

[eisenreich8]

Re: If you paid BIG $ for JO's Cutler or Sanchez

I have a couple of Sixers game worn jerseys that I'm customizing into Dr. J. jerseys. So now I can list them as Dr. J. game worn Sixers jerseys on eBay. Cool. I should be able to make out pretty well.

I'm going to start the bidding out at $1000, even though I paid under $50 for each of them. Future profit was in the back of my mind when I acquired them.

LOL

[spartakid]

Re: If you paid BIG $ for JO's Cutler or Sanchez

Triplexxx- You haven't really defended yourself. He pointed out that there was no captain's patch, but more importantly the different seams. You never gave proof to show that your jersey is issued. From all my experience in game used, game issued should be identical absent obviously use, and I can see how it may be without the captain's patch if it wasn't put on or something, but the difference in the seams seems (no pun intended) to be a pretty big issue. The pics he provided appear to back up his claim. Is there something we are missing?

[tjm5711]

Re: If you paid BIG $ for JO's Cutler or Sanchez

Thank you Dave. I wouldn't put an opinion like that out there without it being backed up !


The other confusing thing is this:

TEAM-ISSUED or GAME-ISSUED--Ordered by a team and intended for game use--but not worn or used. These jerseys will have been team stock, part of the equipment room inventory, but may not have had player's names applied and will not have received the customization that a specific player may request.
GAME-READY--Completely ready for the player to use in game action, but not worn or used. These uniforms will have received the final customization that a player may request. These uniforms will often have been part of a player's uniform rotation, but for one reason or another never saw game action.
_____

That was taken from a posting on 12/2/09 by XXXsports on this forum about an Adrian Peterson game issued jersey.

My question(for all our educational purposes only) which definition does this jersey fit? I'm guessing "Team or Game-issued" But this is an older cut style !

Maybe there's another defintion for this one. Let's make up our own. "Semi-game issued,semi-game ready, throwback style !"

[ironmanfan]

Re: If you paid BIG $ for JO's Cutler or Sanchez

I would like to see the term "game/team issued" eliminated frorm this hobby

[tjm5711]

Re: If you paid BIG $ for JO's Cutler or Sanchez

I agree let's eliminate all these different names and definitions. In my opinion a jersey is either a game-cut ready for use, a retail authentic, or a knock-off from Asia.

Here are a few more pictures to illustrate the fact that no Bears players this year appear to be wearing the style of the aforementioned Cutler jersey. These are pictures of players from both sides of the ball. They all appear to have this diagonal seam along the upper shoulder side, not straight across.

My opinion(and that's all it is) is that The Ebay Cutler jersey is a game-issued jersey from 2006,07,or 08. Maybe the number "9" was simply turned over to make a six. The name plate was changed to that of "Cutler" and presto you have what appears to be a.................. Well we're not even sure what tis is supposed to be !

[skipcarayislegend]

Re: If you paid BIG $ for JO's Cutler or Sanchez

I would like to see the term "game/team issued" eliminated frorm this hobby

I have to disagree with you on this. There are legitimate team/game issued jerseys out there. I've sold a number of actual, honest to goodness game issued jerseys, which I bought from the team myself, but were never used. There's simply no better or more accurate way to describe them if it's what they are.

I think I understand your point, however, which is that the real meaning of "game/team issued" has become devalued and twisted beyond recognition because of those who intentionally use it to misrepresent what they're selling. If you altered it in your basement, it's not team issued. If the team's seamstress altered it at your request and you don't work for the team, it's not team issued. If it's a conglomeration of real jersey parts and pieces created by someone not affiliated with the team, it isn't team issued. Etc, etc.

Personally I don't get all the confusion. If the team issued it and it was never used, it's team/game issued. Otherwise, it's likely either a forgery or being misrepresented. Seems to me the real challenge is knowing whether or not it actually originated from the team in its current state.

You can't eliminate the term because a handful of scoundrels like to play dumb.

[tjm5711]

Re: If you paid BIG $ for JO's Cutler or Sanchez

And finally to support my last opinion. Here are two pictures of Robbie Gould from 2006. These are the older style(you can tell by the seam straight across the front of the upper chest). This is the same style of the Ebay Cutler. The third picture shows our friend Mr. Cutler. See how the "6" is basically a "9" turned right side up ! Not hard to imagine what may have happened now. Is it ?

[skipcarayislegend]

Re: If you paid BIG $ for JO's Cutler or Sanchez

My opinion(and that's all it is) is that The Ebay Cutler jersey is a game-issued jersey from 2006,07,or 08. Maybe the number "9" was simply turned over to make a six. The name plate was changed to that of "Cutler" and presto you have what appears to be a.................. Well we're not even sure what tis is supposed to be !

If you're correct and those alterations were not made by or on behalf of the team, it's a forgery, assuming I'm being told that it originated from the Bears in its current condition. Never mind that it started out as an authentic team issued jersey. The alterations, if made by someone outside the Bears equipment room, negate the "issued" part, imo.

[legaleagle92481]

Re: If you paid BIG $ for JO's Cutler or Sanchez

And finally to support my last opinion. Here are two pictures of Robbie Gould from 2006. These are the older style(you can tell by the seam straight across the front of the upper chest). This is the same style of the Ebay Cutler. The third picture shows our friend Mr. Cutler. See how the "6" is basically a "9" turned right side up ! Not hard to imagine what may have happened now. Is it ?

Well I doubt Cutler and Gould wear the same size jersey. Jay is 6'3 233 and Gould is 6' 185, that is a 3 inch, 50 pound difference. Does anyone know what size they each wear? I think that will answer the question of whether or not a Gould jersey was turned into a Cutler.