You think the yankees are the front runners in signing cliff lee?

[legaleagle92481]

Re: You think the yankees are the front runners in signing cliff lee?

The Ryan example does not compare because it was the major leagues vs. a totally different organization. Also Texas and NY are less than a four hour plane ride apart, Japan is on the other side of the world. You also have the language and cultural differences and the difficulty for family and friends to visit that factor into that equation. It will be interesting to see what he does. I am not a Yankee fan but living in NY I don't recall a situation of them ever losing out on a free agent that they "had" to have. And make no mistake they have to have him. The team is old. Posada, Petitie and Mariano are or are close to 40, Jeter is 37 next year, Arod 36 and all have shown signs of injury and/or decline. Even the "young" guys like Swisher and Tex are over 30. Cano and Gardner are the only regular position guys under 30. The rotation is a mess after CC. Burnett is awful, Hughes is inconsistent at best and Andy is aging and injury prone. They have no pitching prospects ready to step up. The bull pen besides Mariano stinks especially now that Kerry Wood will go elsewhere to close. If they don't get Lee they will be lucky to make the playoffs in 2011. No other trade target or free agent is comparable. Werth is a 30 plus guy who benefited from a hitter's park and a deep lineup who was awful until he became a Phillie. Crawford is a 29 year old speed guy, speed does not age well and at his peak he is a complimentary player rather than a star. Grienke may get traded but with his anxiety issues he would never make it in NY with the media and fans all over him and everything he does all the time. The rest of the trade and free agent guys are medicore at best. I hope he stays in Texas but I am just being realistic and I think in a month we will get to see the press conference that they all have where they don the pinstripes for the first time and wax poetic about how they always wanted to be a Yankee. And players leave "home" all the time to come to the Yankees Giambi did it and he had much greater ties to the As then Lee does to a team he has played a few months for.

As for the Greenberg fans the guy is a blowhard he invested two million in the team I read on SI.com. Yes two million. He somehow convinced them to make him the frontman and now he talks tough on other people's money.

The State income tax and City tax in NY is high totaled about 10% of a millionaire's income. But the media opportunities offset it.

[Gocong57]

Re: You think the yankees are the front runners in signing cliff lee?

The reason they got Halladay was because Lee said he was going to test free agency no matter what. Halladay wanted to pitch for a contender and was willing to forgo free agency to do so. Which he did when he signed an extension after the trade. To get Halladay cost them a haul in prospects. To keep both would have been cost prohibitive and they did not want to lose Lee for nothing at the end of the year so they saw the chance to upgrade their stable of prospects and save some money to use on a pitcher who would be there for a longer term which they got in Oswalt, who is signed for 2011. Werth did not have much trade value because some at the time felt 2009 was a fluke, he is over 30 and on a good time is the second or third best guy in a lineup. Plus he does not play a premium defensive position. They also thought at the time possibly that Werth would have not as good a year as 2009 and they would be able to lock him up. Lee had much more value hands down.

Cost prohibitive? This from a front office that extends Blanton 3 yrs/$24 mil and singles hitting Howard 5 yr/$125 mil, which contract hasn't even kicked yet?!? A stable of prospects where one ends up being arrested for coke possession?!? The Phils could've kept Lee for this season. Wouldn't have mattered anyways as the quickly-aged Phils' and their bats were D.O.A. during playoffs.

[Fnazxc0114]

Re: You think the yankees are the front runners in signing cliff lee?

Legal anybody with any common sense would know that ryan/greenberg dont have the type of money to buy the rangers. It just so happens they are the front men of the "group". When we talk up the owner should we talk about the group or the two guys who have been the face of the purchase since the beginning?

[CollectGU]

Re: You think the yankees are the front runners in signing cliff lee?

No one has even mentioned the fact that when you are a Yankee you have a legitimate shot to win a title every year. If Lee is not about only money, what about the consiistent, legitimate opportunity to win every year. That is huge for guys like Lee who are getting older and want to attain what almost all players feel is the ultimate goal - a ring. The Rangers can't offer that. Recent history shows the team to be inconsistent, 2001 - 2003 horrible, 2004 made a run, 2005 - 2008 horrible sub .500 baseball, 2009-10 - good run. It's a crap shoot with them

Dave

[legaleagle92481]

Re: You think the yankees are the front runners in signing cliff lee?

Legal anybody with any common sense would know that ryan/greenberg dont have the type of money to buy the rangers. It just so happens they are the front men of the "group". When we talk up the owner should we talk about the group or the two guys who have been the face of the purchase since the beginning?

Well my point was he is making all these claims but he doesn't have the cash to back them up. He can't just make Lee an offer of x for x he has to get approval from the guys actually spending the money and it is not a given they will give it.

[Fnazxc0114]

Re: You think the yankees are the front runners in signing cliff lee?

Hey i hate to break the news to you but the yankees only have one more ws ring than the rangers do in the last decade. The idea that they have a shot every year is going down by the year. It will be hard to win a ws if that team doesnt get any younger.

No one has even mentioned the fact that when you are a Yankee you have a legitimate shot to win a title every year. If Lee is not about only money, what about the consiistent, legitimate opportunity to win every year. That is huge for guys like Lee who are getting older and want to attain what almost all players feel is the ultimate goal - a ring. The Rangers can't offer that. Recent history shows the team to be inconsistent, 2001 - 2003 horrible, 2004 made a run, 2005 - 2008 horrible sub .500 baseball, 2009-10 - good run. It's a crap shoot with them

Dave

[ferro39]

Re: You think the yankees are the front runners in signing cliff lee?

disagree.

they do have a shot every year because they make the postseason just about every year. what happens after that is a crap shoot as we saw this year with both the yanks and philly, which was everyone's favorite. the last time the same could be said about a team was the 90s with atlanta. the same cant be said for any other team this past decade.

and as a fan, im not overly worried about them getting younger. montero is pushing hard and will replace jorge, while arod will be a FT DH in a couple of years (also replaced by a younger player). the only one who will linger will be jeter.

let's call a spade a spade too: they can very easily go younger by way of their own prospects and FA

[CollectGU]

Re: You think the yankees are the front runners in signing cliff lee?

Hey i hate to break the news to you but the yankees only have one more ws ring than the rangers do in the last decade. The idea that they have a shot every year is going down by the year. It will be hard to win a ws if that team doesnt get any younger.

1995 thru 2010 - 15 playoff appearances, 5 world series rings.... If you play for the Yankees you have a much greater chance of winning a ring, and players know this. So if they really want you, they will likely give you the largest contract and the best chance at winning a ring.....

Dave

[Bondsgloves]

Re: You think the yankees are the front runners in signing cliff lee?

The Yankees should win the World Series every year, they spend twice as much as everyone else. When you can buy the best free agent year, you should win. Basically they have been underachieving. Yankee's promote themselves as the greatest franchise and a wining tradition, but if any other team spent that kind of money they would be in playoffs every year to. Fans either love them or hate them, because of the advantage of buying championships. Really how hard is it to be Yankee fan when you can buy whatever you want and need? If you can't beat them join them... Clemens, A-rod, Wade Boggs, etc... They took the easy road to a ring..

[xpress34]

Re: You think the yankees are the front runners in signing cliff lee?

The Yankees should win the World Series every year, they spend twice as much as everyone else. When you can buy the best free agent year, you should win. Basically they have been underachieving. Yankee's promote themselves as the greatest franchise and a wining tradition, but if any other team spent that kind of money they would be in playoffs every year to. Fans either love them or hate them, because of the advantage of buying championships. Really how hard is it to be Yankee fan when you can buy whatever you want and need? If you can't beat them join them... Clemens, A-rod, Wade Boggs, etc... They took the easy road to a ring..

The reason they don't win every year is stated well in your post Bondsgloves. They BUY thier teams - they don't BUILD them. Therefore, their is little to NO Team Chemistry because outside of the 'Core Four' as they call them - Jeter, A$$Roid, Posada, Rivera) bo one else knows if they will be there next year regardless of their contract.

They have become a team of 'Mercenary Players' or 'Guns for Hire' and while that might get you to the playoffs every year, the Post Season usually seems to go to the teams who are a UNIT.

The Yankees were that 1996-2000 and then they became the Team that would pay any amount for the biggest Free Agent name just because they could. And ONE (1) WS Championship since then shows that the formula doesn't always work.

The 1996-2000 teams were BUILT by the Yankees through Farm Teams and Trades - not buying th biggest Free Agent name. When they dismantled after the 2001 WS loss the Arizona, they have NEVER been the same.

- Smitty

[LastingsMilledge85]

Re: You think the yankees are the front runners in signing cliff lee?

Take a look at the Cubs every year, they are basically the poor man's Yankees. Each year they buy top guys on the free agent market because they have one outstanding season, and then don't fulfill the outrageous contracts the Cubs give them.

[Bondsgloves]

Re: You think the yankees are the front runners in signing cliff lee?

Xpress I agree with you 100%, but having an unlimited payroll is deffinetly a major advantage. I agree you can't put a value on chemistry look at the Giants and Rangers, they are not the best teams on paper... butthey are making it work. I can't csee a comparison however between the cubs and yankees. The Yankees spending is on a entirely different level.

[xpress34]

Re: You think the yankees are the front runners in signing cliff lee?

I agree you can't put a value on chemistry look at the Giants and Rangers, they are not the best teams on paper... butthey are making it work.

Exactly. Look at the Rockies of 2007 - they were one of the lowest payrolls in MLB, but they believed in each other and had that miraculous run at the end because they knew the name on the front of the jersey was way more important than the one on the back. They are a prime example of true team chemistry and a team that helped each other out every way they could.

- Smitty

[CollectGU]

Re: You think the yankees are the front runners in signing cliff lee?

They have become a team of 'Mercenary Players' or 'Guns for Hire' and while that might get you to the playoffs every year, the Post Season usually seems to go to the teams who are a UNIT..

Come on this is all one big cliche = they play as a unit, unselfish, blah blah blah. All teams that make the playoffs have talent, and all teams ngo through hitting and pitching droughts. Mostly the teams that win are the ones that peak at the right time and don't go into the slumps.

Also, there are a ton of Rangers not homegrown!: Lee, Hamilton , Guerrero, David Murphy, Cruz, Molina...Give me a break, let's be real here!

Dave

[ferro39]

Re: You think the yankees are the front runners in signing cliff lee?

The reason they don't win every year is stated well in your post Bondsgloves. They BUY thier teams - they don't BUILD them. Therefore, their is little to NO Team Chemistry because outside of the 'Core Four' as they call them - Jeter, A$$Roid, Posada, Rivera) bo one else knows if they will be there next year regardless of their contract.

that simply isnt true. guys like swisher, burnett and even hinske injected new life into the team last year and are/were VERY well liked. they were extremely tight and anyone who watches the team on a regular basis knows this. in fact, id even venture to say that 2009 was the closest the team has been since the torre teams of the mid-late 1990s.

contrary to popular belief (among non yankee fans), it's not always about throwing the most money at the FAs they covet. cashman generally know very well who the good dressing room guys are