You think the yankees are the front runners in signing cliff lee?

[Fnazxc0114]

Re: You think the yankees are the front runners in signing cliff lee?

The best pitcher in the post season so far has been matt cain. He shut the rangers down last night, and hasnt given up a earned run in the playoffs. As far as lincecum i doubt he put the fear in the rangers hitters, cain on the other hand he pitched his butt off.

[ferro39]

Re: You think the yankees are the front runners in signing cliff lee?

1. i do think that SF has one of the best staffs (in the majors actually).

2. regular season wise, i dont think that lincecum was anywhere near the best pitcher in the majors, which was actually the original point that was made. strikeouts mean little to me. ERA/WHIP wise, it was actually his worst season in a few years. i mean, wasnt his ERA around 3.5? and only because he finished off hot. iirc, he was actually pushing 4 for a while.

3. outside of his first start in the ALDS, he hasnt been his usual dominating self, imo...and having just looked at his stat lines, that's confirmed. yes, he beat cliff lee. i could have also beat cliff lee on wednesday, so color me not impressed.

4. i think cain and sanchez are very, very good pitchers, but i dont view them as staff aces anywhere--except for maybe on a middle of the pack pitching team. i also watched enough of the giants to know that that win totals are misleading they dont get any run support (especially sanchez). that said, i still dont view them as anchors the way i view lincecum.

cain has it in him, but i dont believe that he's there quite yet. if he continues next season where he leaves off this season, then yeah i would consider him a bonafide ace.

sanchez has ridiculous stuff too, but this really is the first year he's been able to put it all together. i guess we'll also know more about him next year, too

[Bondsgloves]

Re: You think the yankees are the front runners in signing cliff lee?

You said Lincecum was far from the best pitcher in the post season this year. Not saying he's the best but he has beat everyone you could possibly think is better. He had 15k's vs the braves possibly the most dominating performance of any pitcher in the post season this year. He also led the league in strikeouts.. So what's your point. How can you say there are non playoff teams with more talent.. They have probably most talented Pitching staff in baseball

You said Cain and Sanchez are not top flight pitchers... are you kidding me... Cain and Sanchez are better than most Ace's in the league. Cain has had a great year check out his ERA. Sanchez carried the Giants down the stretch..

You must not have followed the Giants much this year if you think they don't have the top or one of top rotations in baseball.

[ferro39]

Re: You think the yankees are the front runners in signing cliff lee?

what point are you arguing?

you think that lincecum was the best pitcher in the league this season or do you think that the giants roster is chock full of super star talent?

[Bondsgloves]

Re: You think the yankees are the front runners in signing cliff lee?

You are right-- he only beat Lowe, Holliday, and Cliff Lee. He also had a 15k game to open the playoffs. Cain only has a 0 ERA in the playoffs and was an Allstar a year ago. Giants outpitched the best pitchers in the game Oswalt, Hamels, Holliday, Cliff Lee, Lowe, etc..

[ferro39]

Re: You think the yankees are the front runners in signing cliff lee?

not to discredit tim lincecum, but he was far from the best pitcher in baseball this year and certainly hasnt been close in the postseason either

him and wilson are legit, and cain and sanchez are good, but again arent top-flight talent. the giants have some very good players, but they are with the exception of posey, what we see is what we'll get with most of them

i love the way the giants are built and are hoping they can pull i out, but looking at things "objectively," i think that there are some non-playoff teams with more pure talent on their rosters than the giants

[cjclong]

Re: You think the yankees are the front runners in signing cliff lee?

I guess its fun to speculate where Lee will go, but this is just speculation. A lot of players are motivated by money and simply go where they will get the most. Others, once they reach a certain salary level are motivated by things other than money. Once a player is being paid 8 or 10 million dollars a year any money over that is sort of like putting sugar on ice cream. That is substantially more in one year than most well paid wage earners will make in their entire life. If the Yankees offer Lee the most money and that is the consideration along with the prestige and publicity of playing in New York he may well go there. If he decides that being close to his home in Arkansas where his young son lives who nearly died from cancer before he was cured he may stay in Texas. Only he knows, not us.

[legaleagle92481]

Re: You think the yankees are the front runners in signing cliff lee?

where did i say that? i didnt even mention cliff lee

you said that the yankees have no team chemistry outside of the core 4 and that they yankees are basically guns for hire instead of a "team." i said that you're wrong

regardless of the sport, a lot of different things have to fall into place in order to win a championship: good management, good players, good coaching, intangibles and getting hot at the right time. you basically need to catch lightning in a bottle. of course it's not as easy as signing the best and most expensive players. that's nothing earth shattering.

all of that said, i think that cashman does an above average job of trying to get all of the pieces to fall into place. he addresses glaring needs by spending money and tries to work outward from there with character guys

the giants are proving that it can be done without the top-tier talent, but how often does a team like that come along? if you're a GM and you have the resources (a la cashman), you spend! there's absolutely nothing noble about hoarding money and trying to build a team from the ground up because you will fail more times than not....not to mention the backlash from the fans who drop big bucks on the team.

The Giants do have top tier talent that is the misconception about this postseason. I am not a west coaster or a Giants fan but looking at it objectively all factors considered i.e. quality of offense supporting them, they have the best pitcher in baseball and a guy who is in the top ten along with the best closer not named Mariano and their third starter would be the ace of all but a few teams. Pitching wins in the postseason always has always will. Add in a young catcher that hits like a first baseman who in a couple of years will leave Joe Mauer in the dust, a big year from a veteran like Huff and a timely hot streak from others like Ross and you have a champ. It reminds me of the 2001 Dbacks.

[ferro39]

Re: You think the yankees are the front runners in signing cliff lee?

So then I guess you are saying that all of the guys here who have stated as FACT that Lee will be a Yankee because the Yankees can and will outbid everyone for the players they want aren't real Yankees fans?

where did i say that? i didnt even mention cliff lee

you said that the yankees have no team chemistry outside of the core 4 and that they yankees are basically guns for hire instead of a "team." i said that you're wrong

regardless of the sport, a lot of different things have to fall into place in order to win a championship: good management, good players, good coaching, intangibles and getting hot at the right time. you basically need to catch lightning in a bottle. of course it's not as easy as signing the best and most expensive players. that's nothing earth shattering.

all of that said, i think that cashman does an above average job of trying to get all of the pieces to fall into place. he addresses glaring needs by spending money and tries to work outward from there with character guys

the giants are proving that it can be done without the top-tier talent, but how often does a team like that come along? if you're a GM and you have the resources (a la cashman), you spend! there's absolutely nothing noble about hoarding money and trying to build a team from the ground up because you will fail more times than not....not to mention the backlash from the fans who drop big bucks on the team.

[xpress34]

Re: You think the yankees are the front runners in signing cliff lee?

Come on this is all one big cliche = they play as a unit, unselfish, blah blah blah. All teams that make the playoffs have talent, and all teams ngo through hitting and pitching droughts. Mostly the teams that win are the ones that peak at the right time and don't go into the slumps.

Also, there are a ton of Rangers not homegrown!: Lee, Hamilton , Guerrero, David Murphy, Cruz, Molina...Give me a break, let's be real here!

Dave

Dave -

Big difference here. I'm not saying that you can't trade for guys and build a strong unit - in fact I even made the trade argument :

The 1996-2000 teams were BUILT by the Yankees through Farm Teams and Trades - not buying th biggest Free Agent name. When they dismantled after the 2001 WS loss the Arizona, they have NEVER been the same.

I'm not talking about completely or mostly home grown teams like the Rockies (outside of Giambi and Cargo the rest of the core are homegrown) and I never said that.

I'm talking about teams like the Yankees since 2001 that have (for the most part) been built by BUYING the current HOT Model from the end of the previous season - and they have ONE WS Ring for all of that money they have paid out. In the same span, Boston has TWO WS Rings and since they disbanded some of their core guys from '04 and '07, they haven't looked quite the same while following the Yankees and throwing money at FAs.

So, yes I am being REAL here.

- Smitty

[xpress34]

Re: You think the yankees are the front runners in signing cliff lee?

contrary to popular belief (among non yankee fans), it's not always about throwing the most money at the FAs they covet. cashman generally know very well who the good dressing room guys are

So then I guess you are saying that all of the guys here who have stated as FACT that Lee will be a Yankee because the Yankees can and will outbid everyone for the players they want aren't real Yankees fans?

[ferro39]

Re: You think the yankees are the front runners in signing cliff lee?

The reason they don't win every year is stated well in your post Bondsgloves. They BUY thier teams - they don't BUILD them. Therefore, their is little to NO Team Chemistry because outside of the 'Core Four' as they call them - Jeter, A$$Roid, Posada, Rivera) bo one else knows if they will be there next year regardless of their contract.

that simply isnt true. guys like swisher, burnett and even hinske injected new life into the team last year and are/were VERY well liked. they were extremely tight and anyone who watches the team on a regular basis knows this. in fact, id even venture to say that 2009 was the closest the team has been since the torre teams of the mid-late 1990s.

contrary to popular belief (among non yankee fans), it's not always about throwing the most money at the FAs they covet. cashman generally know very well who the good dressing room guys are

[CollectGU]

Re: You think the yankees are the front runners in signing cliff lee?

They have become a team of 'Mercenary Players' or 'Guns for Hire' and while that might get you to the playoffs every year, the Post Season usually seems to go to the teams who are a UNIT..

Come on this is all one big cliche = they play as a unit, unselfish, blah blah blah. All teams that make the playoffs have talent, and all teams ngo through hitting and pitching droughts. Mostly the teams that win are the ones that peak at the right time and don't go into the slumps.

Also, there are a ton of Rangers not homegrown!: Lee, Hamilton , Guerrero, David Murphy, Cruz, Molina...Give me a break, let's be real here!

Dave

[xpress34]

Re: You think the yankees are the front runners in signing cliff lee?

I agree you can't put a value on chemistry look at the Giants and Rangers, they are not the best teams on paper... butthey are making it work.

Exactly. Look at the Rockies of 2007 - they were one of the lowest payrolls in MLB, but they believed in each other and had that miraculous run at the end because they knew the name on the front of the jersey was way more important than the one on the back. They are a prime example of true team chemistry and a team that helped each other out every way they could.

- Smitty

[Bondsgloves]

Re: You think the yankees are the front runners in signing cliff lee?

Xpress I agree with you 100%, but having an unlimited payroll is deffinetly a major advantage. I agree you can't put a value on chemistry look at the Giants and Rangers, they are not the best teams on paper... butthey are making it work. I can't csee a comparison however between the cubs and yankees. The Yankees spending is on a entirely different level.