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I recently bought a signed poster from another collector (not on this site) and it came back as not authentic. I have already emailed the seller to let him know I would like a refund and to ship it back to him. This is the first time I have had an autograph come back as not authentic and I think that the seller should pay for the authentication fee since they sold the item as authentic. Can someone who has been in this situation tell me if that's normal practice or if I am going to have to fight with the guy to get my money?
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Re: First fake autograph
I would think a refund would be obvious but the authentication fee would probably be on you. I do not have any knowledge on the subject, but it was an option of yours to have it authenticated. Once its yours, any financial choices you make would be on you. Unfortunate though, sorry about your luck. If he had multiple auto's available that were all fake, then I think you may have options... but if its just one auto that maybe he was sold, then I'd think you'd be out of luck. -
Re: First fake autograph
In my experience, unless the seller says they will refund authentication fees it is on you for those fees. That's why its best to come up with those terms up front. Say someone gets an in person autograph and it doesn't pass, they know it is real, and they shouldn't have to pay for authentication fees.Comment
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Re: First fake autograph
I'd be interested to have you elaborate in this just a bit, if you didn't mind.
Why would you bid on an item if you had any doubts?
As a collector, does a 3rd party authentication matter?
Now, just my side of that is I don't plan on selling much so a 3rd party "guess" doesn't effect me at all.
For what it's worth, 3rd parties are just that. You either saw it signed or you didn't, it's that simple because that's the only way to know for sure. Anything else is pure speculation, and what matters most is YOURS because its in your collection.
If its something you wanted in your collection, I'd ask you reconsider your stance, especially if its a unique item.
I had a eBay buyer go to a 3rd party who will remain nameless. They returned the item as "not likely genuine". However, the clincher is quite simple. The athlete in question I've worked with for 5 years. I've got a stack of 50 blank 8x10s, all signed.
When I contacted the authenticator I asked them about the "exemplar" they were using? Zero response. I ended up getting the athlete to write a letter to the buyer citing the authenticity of the signature. He advised me he tried to forward that letter to the vendor and demand a refund. They canned him a response saying you pay for an opinion and that's what you got.
After all that, the buyer finally let it go and kept the piece. Meanwhile a credible authentication "company" was confronted by an agent for an athlete and did zero about it.Comment
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Re: First fake autograph
This was not a item from ebay, I bought it from another collector. There are few autos that I can tell if there likely authentic or not such as Wright or Beltran since I deal with there autos a lot but I would still not advise someone to buy an item on my opinion. In either case this was a space item, a new area I recently started collecting in. If you feel you can authenticate every auto you buy that's great but to me 3rd party authentication is very important, so long as they are a reputable company. Also having someone whose job is to study autos look at your item isn't speculation. While getting my physics degree I took a class in handwriting analysis and I can tell you if done properly it is a true science. If anything forming the foundation of an autos authentication based an what the seller tells you would greatly depend on your trust of the person and is still, without evidence, conjecture at best. I understand the only way to be 100% sure is to see every item in your collection signed in person but unless I win the lottery tomorrow its not possible for me to fly to every autograph event. On the same note since I have a limited amount of money I can spend on my hobby I will not buy an item if I can not be almost certain it is authentic. There is to many authentic items out there to have something on your wall with questionable authenticate.
Back to my original questions do you think it would be different since the seller said he guaranteed it would pass authentication?Comment
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Re: First fake autograph
Not to come across as rude, but you have no way of forcing him to pay for anything other than a refund......AND even then if it was too long ago even your Card Company may tell you to pound sand.
Heck, even if he put 1000% money back guarantee- I don't think you have a leg to stand on. You can sue, you will win- but at what cost? You may end up having to serve him in his municipality, you may have to hire a lawyer, and you may even have to prove further that it's not authentic by getting multiple opinions. One mans opinion isn't the word of God.
Be happy if you get a refund.Comment
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Re: First fake autograph
I paid with paypal and it came from overseas so I have 180 days to file a dispute. The seller also mailed it directly to the authenticator and they just received it a couple of days ago.
While it may just be "one mans opinion" he is a higly respected authenticator in this field and the sellers claim itself without evadince is just one mans opinion. Why should I be happy if I just get a refund, I paid for an item advertized as authentic.
I understand that many people on here may know and trust each other or have great knowledge in there area of collecting but I didn't realize there was such a (as it seems) disdain for 3rd party authenticators on this forum.Comment
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Re: First fake autograph
I have very few items that are autographed (Id rather have a photo taken with someone than something written on a piece of paper or item), but if I sold you something with an auto that turned out to be fake, when I got it from someone else, I'd give you a refund but that would be all. If you asked for $ for other things you had done, I would tell you to take a hike. Or track down the original owner... etc. If the person you're dealing with has hundreds or thousands of auto's and its a scam, then by all means go for it and sue. If its just a collector who possibly purchased a fake auto himself by chance, then I'd chalk it up as a bad experience and move on. I wouldnt see why it should cost him anymore cash than a refund.
If I purchased an auto and it was fake, I would take responsibility myself for being fooled and move on... especially if the seller gave me refund for the item in question.
Its the risk you take when collecting.Comment
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Re: First fake autograph
I wouldn't say it's distain, it's track record and a long list of errors. They equally have zero accountability, lets say your seller responded to your email with "Here is a photo of him signing the item, I forgot to include it for privacy reasons." You think they will now refund you the money and certify your item, would you want them too?
Bear in mind , not every "authentication" company has to employ a person with a background in handwriting. Even when they do, such as Chris Morales , mistakes can still get made.
Pretty sure we have all seen PSA authenticated items from James Spence, that JSA later declined as non authentic.
Take a good look at what happened with GAI early on, they basically certified anything just to increase market place visibility.
Hopefuly what you should be taking from this is a 3rd party's opinion isn't worth as much as you may think. It makes no difference to me when buying, and I put down around 900-1k down a month in collecting. Truth be told, I've not bid on stuff with GAI Certs before.
If I had the time and money I would sit down with my buddy, record him signing things and then send them in awaiting them to come back "likely not genuine". Then record him opening the results and seeing somebody else tell him what he didn't sign.Comment
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Re: First fake autograph
The way you describe them is the definition of disdain.
If the seller had a photo of the poster being signed this whole thing would be moot. It seems like you think no one out there is selling fakes or trying to be deceptive. If you can authenticate every thing you buy your self that's great but I cant, I guess your just a better collector then I.
I started out simply asking a question of people who may have been in a situation I haven't but maybe of my own fault the subject seems to have shifted.
Never mind.
Take careComment
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Re: First fake autograph
Well that's not what I said at all, but ok.
I gave you my, as did others, personal experience based on the situation.
If you want my direct answer, your lucky to get a refund especially if your looking to utilize a 180 day window on a refund.
At the end of the day, you bought what he sold and you got what you expected. Thats the end of the transaction.
You opted to go involve a 3rd party and then allowed that opinion to change your mind about what you purchased to the point you don't want it. Your out that money, because you made that decision.
If the seller had a track record of fraud, if he shipped you something other than pictured its another story.
Personally I wouldn't refund your money.Comment
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Re: First fake autograph
Why don't you post the autograph in question for some on the board to give you an educated opinion. PSA fails real autographs all the time.Comment
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Re: First fake autograph
Are you saying this seller is "selling fakes or trying to be deceptive," or did he sell you something he believes in?
Either way, the choice to get it authenticated was yours. Over the last six summers of heavy selling, I've had two items fail a major authenticator. I refunded the money immediately, but did not refund the authentication fees. (Nor was I asked to, nor was I expected to.)
I understand being frustrated, but as I read over your posts, it seems to me you had strong feelings one way, and seem to be disappointed that the group doesn't agree.
KenComment
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Re: First fake autograph
I actually meant to bring this us, the fake the title of this thread is "first fake autograph" really can't overstate the thought process here.
I agree with Griffey24fan, let see the item in question. Also, lets see the response of the person who is being accused of selling fake signatures.Comment
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