Radtke Sports, Gridiron Authentics...

[aeneas01]

We are not trying to mislead anyone by the the "Game Issued" statement. The NFL teams give the athletes 2 helmets a year, one to wear on the field and one as a back-up. I guess the back-up you can call a "Game Issue". Which in this business is a very loose term considering what passes as "Game Issues". If we received one of the back-ups issued to Favre or any other player of his stature it would be much higher in price than $500.00 price tag. We will be changing the descriptions to "Game Style" helmets from now on. The differences as you see in the "Game Style" helmet were created because a lot of collectors want all the decals, facemasks, and chin straps that their favorite players wear. Unfortunatley, Ridell does not sell Regular Pro-Lines with the decals or facemasks like that to the general public. Thus, creating a market for helmets to be altered to accomadate the collector who wants something a bit more like what Favre is wearing on the field . We appreciate the feedback and we take it very seriously here. We are available MON-FRI 9AM-6PM EST. Our phone number is readily available if you have questions or concerns.

first of all i have to say how very impressed i am with this post and the edited ebay relisting of the favre helmet! very well done and imo will go a very long way in cementing your reputation as a well-respected, honest dealer.

but i would like to comment on a couple of things you mentioned in your posts as follows:

..."Game Issue". Which in this business is a very loose term considering what passes as "Game Issues".

"this business" you mention is you and you are an industry leader - the term "game issue" is only a loose term because you have allowed it to be and have facilitated its misuse. when industry leaders such as yourself stop misusing the term then it will be painfully easy to spot the small-time crooks such as lambeauleeper when they continue to throw the term around.

but, again, what you did here today and on ebay was very, very commendable and a huge step forward imo - and it could also go a long way in righting the ship.

The differences as you see in the "Game Style" helmet were created because a lot of collectors want all the decals, facemasks, and chin straps that their favorite players wear. Unfortunatley, Ridell does not sell Regular Pro-Lines with the decals or facemasks like that to the general public. Thus, creating a market for helmets to be altered to accomadate the collector who wants something a bit more like what Favre is wearing on the field .

the relatively recent availabilty of pro/college on field decals has been a double-edged sword. on one hand it has given collectors something that was never available before - easy access to helmets that very closely match what the players actually wear on the field at a potentially very reasonable price. but these decals also created a golden opportunity for unscrupulous sellers. as you mention there is certainly a market for such customized helmets - a market that the stock pro-line models can no longer compete with.

yet, having said this, there is absolutely no excuse for claiming that a helmet is a "game issue" piece of equipment when it clearly isn't. nor does the flimsy excuse that the term "game issue" is simply used to differentiate between stock pro-line helmets and custom game style helmets hold any water - an excuse which, believe it or not, i've heard far too often.

there are many, many talented ebayers that have been putting together custom game style helmets for years - ebayers that have never felt it necessary to call their helmets "game issue" for fear they would be confused with stock pro-line helmets.

there is only one reason to claim a helmet is a "game issue" piece of equipment when it isn't, and one reason only - to unscrupulously attempt to inflate the value of a reproduction.

[jayt1234]

Tom Brady's chin straps is an Adams labeled as a Riddell...Not To sure why Brady has the lettering upside down, but he continues to do this with his current set up (Riddell sof chin strap)...He did at one time use a legit Ridell with a hard chinstrap for at least a season as well.

[mvandor]

So, no response from Gridiron Authentics? Very disappointed if Joe intends to leave the many questions over his pricey "game issued" pieces unaddressed. And I say that as a very good repeat customer of his.

[mvandor]

So, no response from Gridiron Authentics? Very disappointed if Joe intends to leave the many questions over his pricey "game issued" pieces unaddressed. And I say that as a very good repeat customer of his.

So, aeneas, no further response from Joe at Gridiron Authentics to you about the issue?

[aeneas01]

So, aeneas, no further response from Joe at Gridiron Authentics to you about the issue?

i received an email last week from ga stating that joe was out of town but that he would contact me monday to continue our dialogue - tuesday has come and gone and no word. as such, i will just go ahead and post the exchange we've had so far.....

me:

hello - are you stating that this particular helmet (brett favre auto 11/22/01 game issue tb helmet * bf coa - 260124640857) was issued by the packers to brett favre for game use but never saw action? that this helmet was once the property of the green bay packers, assembled (decals, facemask, etc.) by the packers' equipment manager? thank you very much.

joe:

Sorry for the delay in replying but I was out of town and the others in the office couldn't answer all of your questions. We cannot verify that the Packers Equipment Mgr. himself or the Packers personally prepared this helmet for Brett. There are only two reconditiong and helmet sources to the NFL and our contact acquired this helmet from these connections. We had an Emmitt Smith, Barry Sanders and a Marino a while back and each athlete verifiede in person for us that the helmet was in fact an issue they would of worn in the actual game. We do not assemble the helmet or alter it in any way. To further verify the accuracy of this issue, we had sold one of these 'game issues' to someone who we later found out 'beat it up' and sold it as game used. The helmet was unfortunately confirmed as game used by a prominent authenticator who recognized the helmet as a true player issue but unfortunatel;y was duped by this character. None the less, I pass this story on to you to help verify its accuracy/authenticity. Hope this helps and thank you. Joe Gridiron Authentics

me:

i very much appreciate your detailed response but but i'm still not clear... your ebay item description states: "Featured is one of only four Packers 'Throwback' game issue helmets ever released like Brett wore that day." you replied that your contact obtained it from an nfl reconditioner - as such, given your ebay item description, are you saying that the nfl reconditioner "released" this helmet and it's only "one of four" ever released by this particular reconditioner - is this plausible? furher, if it was in fact "released" by a reconditioner, why would that make it a "game issued" helmet let alone a brett favre "game issued" helmet?

i know some dealers like to use the term "game issued" when helmets are dressed with the type of decals teams use on the field (nfl shield, clear warning label, etc.) even though these helmets never had anything to do with the team - i've beem told by some of these dealers that they use this term simply to differentiate these "custom helmets" from the stock riddell pro-line helmets that are readily available rather than using the term for what one might expect - a helmet that was actually issued to a player, for game use, by the team. is this the case with your favre helmet? again, thank you very much for your time joe

joe:

We know of only four helmets that were ever made available like this and as noted in the listing, it is exactly as what Brett wore that day including, custom Packers paint finish, Brett's choice face guard, chinstrap, etc. A team issues a helmet based upon an individual player's requests and needs. This helmet is according to Brett's specs and varies in numerous ways from the typical Riddell Pro-Line Helmet that is passed off as game quality. It is the same 'quality' as an actual game helmet but lacks in many particulars that separates a true game helmet apart from a Pro-Line - like thew Brett Favre helmet featured in this ebay listing. I agree, many dealers have loosely used 'game issued' to describe their 'dressed up' Pro Line helmets. That is not the case with this and to further substantiate the difference. All Pro-Line's are a VSR-4 model however, the model in this listing is a WD-2 - completely different and only available as a custom order from Riddell. In fact, I don'e believe Riddell even makes this model any more. Hope this helps. Joe Gridiron Authentics

me:

i very much appreciate your further attempts at clarification but, unfortunately, i still don't understand how you can in good conscience claim that your item is a "brett favre game issue helmet" as well as a "..rare piece of favre memorabilia and unique piece of game issue equipment." - at best this is very misleading and, at worst, appears to be intentionally misleading in my opinion.

it's easy to play the semantics game when it comes to the term "game issue" but at the end of the day i believe we all know exactly what this term really means - and any attempt to blur the lines of definition only smacks of dishonesty. you mentioned in your email that you had an "...emmitt smith, barry sanders and a marino a while back and each athlete verified in person for us that the helmet was in fact an issue they would have worn in an actual game" - i do not doubt this at all but it does not validate, which you seemed to imply, your use of the term game issue in this case. just because an athlete agrees that a given helmet looks like what he would have been given for game use doesn't make that helmet his "game issue" helmet.

the fact of the matter is you have listed a very nice reproduction that matches favre's game day helmet - but it's still a reproduction. is your helmet a heck of a lot nicer and a heck of a lot more authentic in appearance than a stock pro-line model? of course it is - but, again, that does not make it a favre game issue helmet.

from your responses to my emails it's clear that you are not only a very nice person but also a professional who takes great pride in his business - as such it's no wonder why gridiron authentics enjoys such a wonderful reputation. and because of this, for the life of me, i don't understand why you would chance risking your hard-earned image by inviting doubt over something as transparent as "game issue" claims. further, as a well-respected industry leader, i would also think you would want to separate and distance yourself as far as possible from those easily identifiable charlatans that play these word games.

i noticed that radtke sports recently listed an item on ebay as a "game issue favre helmet" with an item description that was almost identical to yours - but he has since edited his listing to read "game style favre helmet" which i thought was very admirable. while it's true that the helmet he's selling is a customized pro-line and not a customized wd model such as yours, i thought it was nonetheless an important gesture coming from another well-respected memorabila dealer.

anyway joe, i want to thank you again for your patience in taking the time to explain to me why gridirion authentics has chosen to describe the favre helmet as it has - while i don't agree with your business decision i think i at least understand why you felt motivated to do so.

[aeneas01]

speaking of email exchanges with ebayers that sell game used, game worn or game issued equipment, i've recently had this exchange with ebayer dalcowbill (who is known to sell game used dallas cowboys equipment) regarding a "game used drew pearson helmet" he currently has listed.

for the record, i've stated before on this forum that his goods have always appeared to be authentic and that he struck me as an honest dealer - however i was disappointed some time ago when he listed on ebay a vintage cowboys' suspension helmet, a helmet that i had watched previously sell at another auction house, without including a photo of a severe crack it had sustained. given the many photos he did include of the helmet in his ad, the omission struck me as rather glaring...

me:

hello - are you sure this helmet belonged to drew pearson? it's my understanding that pearson only wore a riddell suspension helmet throughout his career - even in the last game of his career, a 12/83 playoff loss to the rams. even the photo you have included in your ad shows pearson wearing a suspension helmet...

http://cgi.ebay.com/DREW-PEARSON-GAM...QQcmdZViewItem

dalcowbill:

pretty sure- i had lampson look at it for me- he wouldn't write a letter on it because of the clips- they should be grey. the reason they are not is because when the helmet out of storage the grey clips were all cracked so i replaced them with these clips on the helmet.

me:

that's odd - i've seen many, many game used helmets earn loa's despite having replacement clips. i mean it's pretty common knowledge among collectors that the vintage gray schutt clips become brittle with age and fall apart - as such, it's not uncommon to see modern replacement clips on vintage game used helmets with coas. but as far as your pearson helmet is concerned, he simply didn't wear anything other than a ridddell suspension during his career - here's a photo of him wearing his suspension in the last game he ever played...

dalcowbill:

no respone to email

me:

so you are saying lampson authenticated the helmet itself - agreed or stated that it was a pearson game used helmet, but didn't issue any paper because of the clips?

dalcowbill:

no respone to email

me:

i forgot to add that imo your helmet does appear to be an authentic dallas cowboys' helmet - so i hope you don't think i'm questioning that. also, fwiw, many receivers from that era didn't switch from their suspension helmets to the more modern riddell helmets as they became available because the newer helmets were considerably heavier - and the last thing a fleet-footed receiver wanted was something that could potentially slow him down.

dalcowbill:

no respone to email

[mvandor]

My compliments on your wording and approach.

The last email to Joe didn't necessarily invite a response, so perhaps he won't reply further. I did email him this thread and invited his reply here, but that was a week or so ago. His replies to you are unfortunately a bit less than direct, they seem to imply that he gets these from a reconditioning company that knocks off a few extras or something, however, I was of the impression decals were added by team equipment staff, not reconditioners, so I'm still confused as to how these helmets come about such as his Brady's. Certainly Joe doesn't seem to claim team origination, so something doesn't add up to me.

Don't know the other seller, but silence in such an exchange is seldom a positive sign.

[mvandor]

It appears Joe at Gridiron Authentics is carrying on without any adjustment in how he represents his "game issue" helmets. See http://cgi.ebay.com/TOM-BRADY-2001-P...QQcmdZViewItem

Same appears true for Radtke:

http://cgi.ebay.com/MICHAEL-VICK-AUT...QQcmdZViewItem

It appears money talks louder than this board or their customers.

[radtke]

It appears Joe at Gridiron Authentics is carrying on without any adjustment in how he represents his "game issue" helmets. See http://cgi.ebay.com/TOM-BRADY-2001-P...QQcmdZViewItem

Same appears true for Radtke:

http://cgi.ebay.com/MICHAEL-VICK-AUT...QQcmdZViewItem

It appears money talks louder than this board or their customers.

No, it was accidentally listed that way. Andale had it stored that way in its database and we re-listed it on accident without checking. Sorry for the confusion.

[mvandor]

No, it was accidentally listed that way. Andale had it stored that way in its database and we re-listed it on accident without checking. Sorry for the confusion.

Rick, as a regular customer of yours, I appreciate you caring enough to monitor this forum and respect the feelings of its members - serious collectors. I look forward to your correction of your Andale template.