momen clemente U1?

[momen55]

mike and brian;
i am confused about this bat! after looking at the book, and looking at all the different brands, this is what i see according to what i read. the bat i have, i was told it is from a 1958 order. but the labels say different.

the labels are the following;
center- c-15a
powerized-P9
barrel is a BB-6

how if the bat is from a 58 order, does it have 59-75 barrel brand?
than according to the book, my bat is from 60 or 61. will you shed some light on this???

[momen55]

Re: momen clemente U1?

mike,
i weighed the bat and it is 32.6oz., 35".

[MSpecht]

Re: momen clemente U1?

Assuming the center brand, powerized, and barrel brand information is correct, the overlap period for that combination of brandings is 1959-1960. In 1958 there is only one order of U1 bats documented for clemente (35" / 34 oz -- 6 bats on 5/19/58.) That was actually his first order of the model. In 1960, two orders of 35" model U1 bats (32 oz and 33 oz -- 18 bats) are documented. The liklihood is that the bat is either from a 1960 order, or that there was a transition period for the barrel label die that extended from May 1958 rather than from the beginning of the 1959 season.

Mike Jackitout7@aol.com

[momen55]

Re: momen clemente U1?

hi mike;
then it would be correct to say that this bat weighing at 32.7oz used to weigh 34oz and from the 58 order. i doubt it was a 33oz bat from the 60 order that only lost .3oz in 50 years!

i was looking at the barrel brand and it clearly shows the G's being rounded completely like the bb-6. maybe they did change early in 58.

[yanks12025]

Re: momen clemente U1?

May ask why they used Momen?

[momen55]

Re: momen clemente U1?

that was his nickname growing up. he used that as his auto early in his career until 61 or 62. thereafter, it was roberto.

[MSpecht]

Re: momen clemente U1?

For the record, here is some information on Roberto Clemente game-used H & B bats with the Momen Clemente signature on the barrel. The best information is found on the players records (bat cards) from
H & B. On each player's bat card(s), his name, his team during the period covered by that specific card, and the signature to be used is noted at the top of each card. Any changes of the player's team are reflected at the top of the card, and any changes to the signature are generally reflected in the body of the card on the date the change is made. The change in signature is sometimes also found at the top of the card.

Clemente's records cover five separate bat cards. The first card, containing his first bat order in 1954 (M117) through 4/5/62 shows the following information at the top of the card: Clemente, Momen Roberto , Montreal BBC (Baseball Club), Pittsburgh BBC, Auto: Momen. The term New Auto appears between the first and second bat orders in early 1954, and likely correspond to the date he signed a contract with H & B.

Clemente's second bat card, encompassing the period from May 1962 through 12/10/64, still shows the notation Auto Momen at the top, which would indicate that the Momen signature was still being used when the second card was started in May 1962. Unfortunately, there is no notation within the orders on the second card that indicate when a change from the Momen signature to the Roberto signature was made. The change was made at some time during that time frame, however, as Clemente's third bat card (12/10/64 through 8/9/67) has the following notation at the top: Auto Roberto.

My personal experience leads me to believe that the change had certainly been made prior to the end of the 1964 season as I owned a Clemente gamer that was specifically dated to September, 1964 which bore the Roberto signature. I also owned a Clemente O16 gamer from the 1961-1964 labeling period that had the Roberto signature. That bat could have been manufactured as early as 5/16/61 or as late as 4/8/64.

I believe that the most specific thing that can be said with the above information is that the Momen Clemente signature was used from 1954 to sometime during the 1961-1964 H & B labeling period,. The signature change to Roberto had occurred by 4/8/64 and possibly occurred as early as 5/16/61. This time frame could be narrowed down through photo research of Clemente's 1961 (K55), 1962 (U1), and 1963 (U1) All -Star bats.

How many potential bats are out there with the Momen Clemente signature ? Impossible to say, but Clemente ordered over 450 bats from 1954 through March 1962, all of which appear to have had the early signature.

Also, a final interesting note. At the top of Clemente's last (fifth) bat card, it states "Use Clemente Auto on Jose Ortiz." Ortiz played for the White Sox and Cubs in 1969, 1970, 1971 and was born in Ponce, Puerto Rico in 1947 ... probably a big Clemente fan.

Mike Jackitout7@aol.com