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Re: Game Used Bart Starr Lid?
hey kj24, thanks very much for pointing me to that lid - i didn't know gf had a "store" section as well...
as a collector of older lids, i really have a soft spot for vintage wilson and rawlings helmets (and clear shell macgregors) because they are such classics and because, generally speaking, teams that sported them were teams that supported their local manufacturer (wilson/bears, rawlings/cards, etc.) - imo nothing says chicago bears more than a classic, vintage wilson lid.
anyway, as far as this lid is concerned, i'm not very impressed - at all, given the following:
1. it strikes me as awfully pristine. the exterior shell does not look at all like it was exposed to the sort of punishing hits a hall of famer like sayers certainly endured. and the interior does not look at all like it has weathered the ugly dampness and weather conditions of soldier field. further, the nylon facemask also appears to have never seen action.
2. unlike riddell, wilson manufactured their helmets using different colored plastics in the '60s - in other words, teams did not have to purchase white helmets from wilson and paint them the team colors which was often the case with teams that purchased their lids from riddell during this era. consequently, there would have been no reason for the bears to have purchased white helmets from wilson - but the helmet sold at gf is obviously a white impregenated shell that has been painted chicago blue.
3. the gf "sayers" helmet appears to be a much newer wilson version than what sayers would have worn during the 1-2 years he sported this model early in his career. i would guess that the gf "sayers" helmet is circa 1972-1975. as this particular wilson helmet evolved, screws replaced some of the rivets which held the interior padding in place.
4. while they're not exactly growing on trees, it's not very difficult to find a wilson f2000 listed on ebay from time to time; especially white ones. i have around a dozen, even a couple that are impregnated dark navy blue - hmmm...
5. imo this lid is definitely a fake - although i do think it's worth mentioning that whoever put this lid together was at least on the ball enough to add additional chinstrap snaps to helmet, located above the facemask snaps, which is consistent with sayers's helmet. and, fwiw, sayers only wore this model for a year early in his career...
here's a a photo of sayers wearing this type of wilson early in his career - it's easy to see the additional facemask snap...
here's a classic game used bears helmet that sold at auction a few years back - it's the same model sayers wore, note the front, smaller rivets instead of screws and notice the wear to the interior padding. it even has the same classic leather wilson chinstrap that sayers wore when he wore this model...
here's another classic game worn bears helmet from that era, albeit a different wilson model - compare the wear to what sold at gf...
hey kj24, thanks very much for pointing me to that lid - i didn't know gf had a "store" section as well...
as a collector of older lids, i really have a soft spot for vintage wilson and rawlings helmets (and clear shell macgregors) because they are such classics and because, generally speaking, teams that sported them were teams that supported their local manufacturer (wilson/bears, rawlings/cards, etc.) - imo nothing says chicago bears more than a classic, vintage wilson lid.
anyway, as far as this lid is concerned, i'm not very impressed - at all, given the following:
1. it strikes me as awfully pristine. the exterior shell does not look at all like it was exposed to the sort of punishing hits a hall of famer like sayers certainly endured. and the interior does not look at all like it has weathered the ugly dampness and weather conditions of soldier field. further, the nylon facemask also appears to have never seen action.
2. unlike riddell, wilson manufactured their helmets using different colored plastics in the '60s - in other words, teams did not have to purchase white helmets from wilson and paint them the team colors which was often the case with teams that purchased their lids from riddell during this era. consequently, there would have been no reason for the bears to have purchased white helmets from wilson - but the helmet sold at gf is obviously a white impregenated shell that has been painted chicago blue.
3. the gf "sayers" helmet appears to be a much newer wilson version than what sayers would have worn during the 1-2 years he sported this model early in his career. i would guess that the gf "sayers" helmet is circa 1972-1975. as this particular wilson helmet evolved, screws replaced some of the rivets which held the interior padding in place.
4. while they're not exactly growing on trees, it's not very difficult to find a wilson f2000 listed on ebay from time to time; especially white ones. i have around a dozen, even a couple that are impregnated dark navy blue - hmmm...
5. imo this lid is definitely a fake - although i do think it's worth mentioning that whoever put this lid together was at least on the ball enough to add additional chinstrap snaps to helmet, located above the facemask snaps, which is consistent with sayers's helmet. and, fwiw, sayers only wore this model for a year early in his career...
here's a a photo of sayers wearing this type of wilson early in his career - it's easy to see the additional facemask snap...
here's a classic game used bears helmet that sold at auction a few years back - it's the same model sayers wore, note the front, smaller rivets instead of screws and notice the wear to the interior padding. it even has the same classic leather wilson chinstrap that sayers wore when he wore this model...
here's another classic game worn bears helmet from that era, albeit a different wilson model - compare the wear to what sold at gf...
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