Gaylord Perry Padres lettering?

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: Gaylord Perry Padres lettering?

warren,

i'm always up for learning more about tags. as far as i know however, the wilson tag on the perry falls into the correct date range.

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=1592

do you and howard know something i don't?

rudy.

Actually, I was assuming Howard's info was correct. I'm not sure, and I should have refered to the JammyFiles first!
I agree, the R's in PERRY look real close...

[hblakewolf]

Re: Gaylord Perry Padres lettering?

warren,

i'm always up for learning more about tags. as far as i know however, the wilson tag on the perry falls into the correct date range.

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=1592

do you and howard know something i don't?

rudy.

Hi Rudy-
Based upon your previous post some months ago, you indicte that the Registered (R) mark on the Wilson tag was moved to the bottom of the N in WILSON starting in 1978. Based upon the folowing, I have to disagree and also resurface my concern about this tag in question:

1. I had a 1978 Jerry Turner Padres jersey many, many years ago. The R in the tag was positioned on the top onf the N.

2. Based upon the hundreds of jerseys I have had from the Phillies, it appears that Wilson had a "transition" year of 1980 when they moved the R on the Wilson tag. The Phillies only wore wilson Jerseys from the 1940's through 1986. EVERY jersey I have through 1979 has the R positioned on top of the N. The attached photos are included as reference. Note that 2 of the 3 1980 Phillies road jerseys have the R below the N. Only my Bob Boone 1980 has it positoned above. Likewise, every jersey from the Phillies dating from 1981 through 1985 have the same R below the N.




Did Wilson incrporate the Wilson tag first used on the Phillies jerseys in 1980, 2 seasons prior (1978) for the Padres (see photo from the 1978 Padres Perry in question)???



My previous post was based upon the above. Should another individual have other 1978 Padres jerseys that they can share the tagging from, I'd welcome it here.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[hblakewolf]

Re: Gaylord Perry Padres lettering?

Hi Rudy-
Based upon your previous post some months ago, you indicte that the Registered (R) mark on the Wilson tag was moved to the bottom of the N in WILSON starting in 1978. Based upon the folowing, I have to disagree and also resurface my concern about this tag in question:

1. I had a 1978 Jerry Turner Padres jersey many, many years ago. The R in the tag was positioned on the top onf the N.

2. Based upon the hundreds of jerseys I have had from the Phillies, it appears that Wilson had a "transition" year of 1980 when they moved the R on the Wilson tag. The Phillies only wore wilson Jerseys from the 1940's through 1986. EVERY jersey I have through 1979 has the R positioned on top of the N. The attached photos are included as reference. Note that 2 of the 3 1980 Phillies road jerseys have the R below the N. Only my Bob Boone 1980 has it positoned above. Likewise, every jersey from the Phillies dating from 1981 through 1985 have the same R below the N.
[ATTACH]8516[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]8517[/ATTACH]

Did Wilson incrporate the Wilson tag first used on the Phillies jerseys in 1980, 2 seasons prior (1978) for the Padres (see photo from the 1978 Padres Perry in question)???
[ATTACH]8518[/ATTACH]


My previous post was based upon the above. Should another individual have other 1978 Padres jerseys that they can share the tagging from, I'd welcome it here.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

Here are the photos of the Phillies jerseys:

[kingjammy24]

Re: Gaylord Perry Padres lettering?

hey howard,

let me first explain how i came to the conclusions in the wilson tagging primer. first, i compiled huge amounts of wilson jerseys. when deciding on a particular date for a specific tag, i tried to see when that specific tag first appeared. let me say straight off the bat, this doesn't at all mean that all wilson jerseys for that year had that specific style of wilson tag. i found huge amounts of carryovers. carryovers weren't my concern however. all i really wanted to know was when that specific wilson tag first appeared. so when i say that the wilson tag with the "R" on the bottom of the "N" first appeared in 1978, it simply means that i found a reasonable mass of jerseys from 1978 (with 1978 year tags) that had the "R" on the bottom of the "N". now unless all of these jerseys (most of which were common player jerseys) were all fake, this indicated to me that this particular wilson tag first appeared in 1978.

you say that you believe it first made it's appearance in 1980 and your evidence are those phillies jerseys. is it possible that either the jerseys themselves were carryovers or that wilson, in 1980, had no qualms about using older tags? i have no trouble imagining wilson using "older" tags simply to reduce costs and use up existing inventory.

if your theory is correct, that the tag first made its appearance in 1980, then it would mean that all of the jerseys i saw from 1978 were fakes. if you make decisions based on what's more likely, it seems more likely that the phillies jerseys were carryovers and/or that wilson used some old tags than all of the 1978 and 1979 jerseys i've seen being fake. it makes sense for some newer jerseys to use older tags. it doesn't make any sense for older jerseys to use newer tags.

here are some 1978 and 1979 jerseys with the tag that you believe first appeared in 1980. what do you make of them?

http://www.lelands.com/bid.aspx?auctionid=512&lot=693

http://www.lelands.com/bid.aspx?auctionid=412&lot=557

http://www.lelands.com/bid.aspx?auctionid=405&lot=655

http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=34134

http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=29820

http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=23241

http://www.greyflannelauctions.com/showdetail.cfm?CategoryNum=3&Lot=174

you posted 3 pics of 1980 phillies jerseys. those 3 jerseys use 2 different styles of wilson tags, indicating that the phillies did use carryovers.

re: the jerry turner jersey
when talking about tag changes, i don't know exactly, in terms of the week or month, when wilson started to use a new tag. i have a theory that new tags may have been made late in the season and possibly applied to some late season orders. hence, you wouldn't see the new tagging on the overwhelming majority of jerseys that year. typically you'd see it the following year. however, perhaps a few late season orders got the new tags.

"Did Wilson incrporate the Wilson tag first used on the Phillies jerseys in 1980, 2 seasons prior (1978) for the Padres"

given that the padres jerseys were a one-year only style for 1978, we definitely know that they were made in 1978. maybe the question isn't so much whether wilson incorporate the new tag for the padres and not the phillies, but instead whether the phillies carried over old blank jerseys, hence the tagging that the padres saw in 1978 was first seen on the phillies in 1980. the thing about your experience is that i'd love to see it based on more than 1 team. it's just too easy for one team practice, such as carryovers, to affect the data.

anyway, let me know what you think of the jerseys shown in the links above.

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

Re: Gaylord Perry Padres lettering?

just wanted to add..i could be wrong but, i simply noticed that i saw jerseys from 1978 with that style of wilson tag. if they weren't fake, then i thought it was pretty conclusive. looking at older jerseys (70s-80s) i did notice tons of carryovers. i'm not sure if wilson was using old tags mixed in with new ones or if teams were carrying over or both. i simply noted when i first saw a certain tag appear among a reasonable amount of common player jerseys. if wilson was using a mix of old and new tags during a transitionary period, then the important point that still stands is when they first began using the new tags even if they only used them in small quantities.

lon lewis knows a lot about wilson tags. hopefully he'll add his 2 bits in here.

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

Re: Gaylord Perry Padres lettering?

wow i can't believe this jersey is still up for auction. GFC pulled the henderson and the blue but not this one?

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

Re: Gaylord Perry Padres lettering?

it's back:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270351138332

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

Re: Gaylord Perry Padres lettering?

32 bids. sold for $1037. nice.

rudy.

[cjw]

Re: Gaylord Perry Padres lettering?

For what it is worth..these are pics of my movie-used, WILSON-made, 1978 Padres-style (almost exact style?) home white jersey...for comparison purposes. It has a 1979 year tag and the movie was shot in 1979, but the presence of the "SAN DIEGO" lettering above the PADRES lettering dates this to 1978. Fonts and nameplate are shown.