1973-74 Rams James Harris?

[RKGIBSON]

Re: 1973-74 Rams James Harris?

Here is a couple of photos of a '73 John Hadl jersey that I had years ago.


Where can I find 1986 preseason game photos or videos? It has been impossible for me to even find who played who.


Great stuff here.

Roger

[commando]

Re: 1973-74 Rams James Harris?

So, no pictures have been found (so far) for these kinds of trimmed numbers on a white jersey with yellow sleeves. If this were a common lineman's jersey, I'd be scratching my head. But being that it's a quarterbacks jersey, I'd tend to believe that it is a unique salesman's sample. Sand Knit loved using quarterbacks on their samples.

[aeneas01]

Re: 1973-74 Rams James Harris?

aeneas01,

I also thought that they switched to solid numbers on their blue jerseys shortly into the 1973 season, but I ended up finding a few photos where it looks like they were probably wearing both the solid numbers and the trimmed style on their blue jerseys at times during the regular season. See Getty Image #76069624 from the 11/11/73 game against the Saints as Jim Bertelsen's jersey appears to have the white trim on the gold sleeve number.

I assumed that they were wearing only the solid gold number on their blue jerseys by 1974, but then I found a photo of reserve QB Don Milan in Getty Image #76095039 that is supposedly from the 12/9/74 Monday Night Game against Washington. Maybe it's just one of those unusual situations where they didn't have a #15 in the solid gold style, so they pulled out the style with the white trim.

Like you, I never recall the Rams white jerseys in that era having blue numbers with gold trim, and I have never found evidence of them wearing that style in either game photos or publicity pictures. Reviewing a Rams 1973 highlights video or searching the LA Times archives might be the only way to positively substantiate this belief.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

i believe that what you are seeing in the bertelsen and milan photos is nothing more than a reflection caused by the raised edges of the fabric numbers - this reflection, causing a "trim-like " effect, is even more pronounced in b&w photos such as the milan & bertelsen photos you referenced.

as far as the actual "trim-numbered" jerseys are concerned, i believe that only the front and back numbers were trimmed in white, not the sleeve numbers. looking at the mccutheon media photo posted above i think two things are apparent - that the sleeve numbers do not have a white trim (looking at lc's left sleeve number) and that the sleeve numbers do cause a reflection giving the appearance of some sort of trim (looking at lc's right sleeve number).

there are quite a few photos in circulation from the rams' 1973 and 1974 regular seasons in which even the front and back numbers appear to be trimmed in white - especially in b&w photos. but the "trim-like" effect in these photos is caused by the rams' use of fabric numbers during those years, not by actual trim - both the raised edges of the numbers and the sheen of the fabric contribute to the effect. i have not seen any evidence that the rams used the "trim-numbered" jerseys other than in media photos and the first couple of 1973 preseason games. looking at post-1974 photos of the rams, after they quit the use of fabric numbers, the "trim-like" effect is no longer evident.

here's a good example of the the reflection at work as far as the sleeve numbers concerned - the rams' tackler on the left appears to have sleeve numbers trimmed in white but the tackler on the right does not.




another good example of reflections caused by the sheen and raised edges of the fabric numbers.



and another.



here's a better photo, without the watermark, of the milan image you mentioned.



and a 1975 photo from when the rams stopped using fabric numbers.

[G1X]

Re: 1973-74 Rams James Harris?

aeneas01,

I also thought that they switched to solid numbers on their blue jerseys shortly into the 1973 season, but I ended up finding a few photos where it looks like they were probably wearing both the solid numbers and the trimmed style on their blue jerseys at times during the regular season. See Getty Image #76069624 from the 11/11/73 game against the Saints as Jim Bertelsen's jersey appears to have the white trim on the gold sleeve number.

I assumed that they were wearing only the solid gold number on their blue jerseys by 1974, but then I found a photo of reserve QB Don Milan in Getty Image #76095039 that is supposedly from the 12/9/74 Monday Night Game against Washington. Maybe it's just one of those unusual situations where they didn't have a #15 in the solid gold style, so they pulled out the style with the white trim.

Like you, I never recall the Rams white jerseys in that era having blue numbers with gold trim, and I have never found evidence of them wearing that style in either game photos or publicity pictures. Reviewing a Rams 1973 highlights video or searching the LA Times archives might be the only way to positively substantiate this belief.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

[aeneas01]

Re: 1973-74 Rams James Harris?

i've been a lifelong rams fan and, fwiw, here are my thoughts on the jersey:

1) harris joined the rams midway through the '72 season and wore number 11, not 12, in '72 & '73. from '74 on he wore 12.

2) i believe that the "outlined number" jerseys were introduced in 1973 when the rams switched from blue & white to blue & packer gold. i also believe that these jerseys were only worn for 1973 media photos and just a couple of preseason games and then shelved forever.

3) if i'm correct in that the rams only wore the outlined number jerseys during '73 media photos and a couple of '73 preseason games, then the jersey most likely didn't belong to harris because he didn't wear number 12 at the time. further, as can be seen in the photos below, it doesn't appear that the rams ever wore "road" (white) jerseys with trim which makes it even more unlikely that the jersey in question once belonged to harris.

4) the rams' '73 preseason schedule was: h/dal, h/cle, a/oak, a/mia, h/sdg and h/sfo.


1973 media guide photo of harris (number 11)


1973 media guide photo of mccutcheon


first preseason game of '73 season - in l.a. vs cowboys (trim)


second preseason game of '73 season - in l.a. vs browns (trim)


another photo of second preseason game of '73 season vs browns (trim)


third preseason game of '73 seasons - on the road against raiders (no trim)


another photo of third preseason game of '73 season against raiders (no trim)


final preseason game of '73 season - in l.a. vs niners (no trim)

[G1X]

Re: 1973-74 Rams James Harris?

genius,

Yes, you are correct, Cleveland wore brown jerseys with orange numbers and off-set white trim in their opening 1984 preseason game at home against the Steelers on August 4 (see photos below). As mentioned in my previous post, the white jerseys with orange numbers were never worn.

The Browns made the decision to change styles in 1984 and wear orange numbers on both their home and road jerseys. There was also a change in the sleeve stripes as well. Because the orange numbers were difficult to read from the pressbox and stands in that opening preseason game, the Browns quickly decided to can the orange number scheme before the white jerseys were ever worn.

The Browns ended up wearing a one-year style that season in which the brown jerseys had white numbers trimmed in orange, and the white jerseys had brown numbers trimmed in orange. They stuck with the sleeve stripe design that were on the ill-fated jerseys. See Getty Image #73843821 for a good shot of the regular-season brown jersey, and Getty Image #76519090 for a look at the white regular-season jersey.

Below are photos of a notorious one-game brown jersey that used to be in my collection. I don't have any photos of the never-worn white jerseys, but they can be found in the hobby.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

[genius]

Re: 1973-74 Rams James Harris?

This was mentioned in this thread...the infamous 1984 Cleveland Browns brown-with-orange-numerals jerseys WERE worn one time, in the preseason opener against the Steelers at Cleveland Stadium. I remember it vividly.

[G1X]

Re: 1973-74 Rams James Harris?

Eric,
The sleeve numbers are the typical block style, and they appear to be gold trimmed in white. I have never owned this particular style of Rams blue jersey, and I've always had difficulty finding a good photo of the sleeve numbers.

Regarding the questioned Doug Williams jersey, it wouldn't make sense to have gold trim on the sleeve numbers as it would "disappear" into the gold sleeve fabric.

Upon further research, it looks like the Rams were still wearing solid gold "sewn-on" numbers in 1974, and perhaps some of the players were wearing the white trim style as well. I found a photo where it looks like Harris is wearing "screened-on" numbers while others in the photo have "sewn-on" numbers. Making matters even more confusing, there appears to be photo evidence that the Rams were wearing the solid gold numbers ("sewn-on" numbers with no trim) at times during games in 1973.

jdr3,
If you have photos or video of the 'Skins December 9, 1974 Monday Night game at LA or the playoff game against the Rams later that month, check it out and let us know your thoughts. Photos I have seen show Rams players in sewn-on numbers, and it looks like some have the trim.

Rams collectors or vintage jersey collectors, please help us out if you have any '73 or '74 Rams jerseys, or have background information on them.

Thanks,

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

[Eric]

Re: 1973-74 Rams James Harris?

Mark-
Good info as always. Question- on that rare style, what do the sleeve numbers look like on that style? do they have the trim as well?

[G1X]

Re: 1973-74 Rams James Harris?

Sorry for the bit of confusion. In the last sentence of the third paragraph from the bottom, I should have said "blue numbers trimmed in gold".

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

[G1X]

Re: 1973-74 Rams James Harris?

Gentlemen,

I have no comment on the particular James Harris jersey in question, but I would like to shed some light on Rams jerseys from that era.

The Rams first changed to the ram-horn insert style in 1973. The blue jerseys originally had two-toned "sewn-on" numbers that were gold trimmed in white. This can be seen in numerous photos of the era in magazines, Getty Images, TOPPS football cards, etc.




This style seems to be very short-lived as they can be seen wearing the solid gold numbers by 1974.

Logic would dictate that the Rams would have had a white jersey style that correlated with the blue jersey style. In other words, a white jersey with blue sewn-on numbers trimmed in gold. However, I have researched this issue in the past and have never been able to find a photograph that substantiates the Rams wearing a white jersey with blue numbers trimmed in white.

Perhaps they had a set and never wore them. This wouldn't be the first time this happened. In 1968, the Falcons had a black jersey with trim on the sleeve cuffs (no sleeve stripes and no Falcon logo) that can be seen in plenty of TOPPS photos but not in any game action photos. Then there are the infamous 1984 Cleveland Browns white jerseys with orange numbers that were never worn (documented in several articles including USA Today).

Perhaps the Rams had a set and wore them, but the gold trim simply does not show up in photographs. Or, maybe they never had a set and only salesmen samples exist. Who knows without concrete photo evidence. Perhaps there are Rams collectors out there or someone with knowledge of the Rams equipment staff who can provide facts, photos, or details.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

[jdr3]

Re: 1973-74 Rams James Harris?

Warren,

Good to know for future reference.

Thanks.

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: 1973-74 Rams James Harris?

The other thing about this jersey is that I have a few football and basketball related items with this type of tag, which was used from roughly 1976- the early 80s, and on each item the tag is glued on.

I have seen the tags (size/exclusive) glued on and some, sewn on.

[jdr3]

Re: 1973-74 Rams James Harris?

I agree with the fact that I cannot recall the Rams using two tone numerals. The other thing about this jersey is that I have a few football and basketball related items with this type of tag, which was used from roughly 1976- the early 80s, and on each item the tag is glued on.

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: 1973-74 Rams James Harris?

Designed & Tailored Exclusively for the Los Angeles Rams NFC Medalist Sand-Knit tag from slightly later period has been reapplied to front left tail.

I did not notice this line when I first read the description. Tag has also been re-applied incorrectly. Tag should be sewn on left and right sides ONLY; not top and bottom. Note to readers...if a tag has EVER been re-sewn...then the deal is blown...