Barry Bonds Issues

[Yankwood]

Re: Barry Bonds Issues

You can't compare murder to steriods.

Nobody did and stop assuming I did. The point is that baseball cannot list everything that violates a rule and it's ridiculous to think is can publish a book that encapsulates every possible infraction. Speeding is breaking the law and everyone does it. Does that make it right-no, but it has no bearing on baseball. Steroids do. Everone taking them in all sports knows it's wrong.

[allstarsplus]

Re: Barry Bonds Issues

Yankwood - I don't think anyone that has posted believe steroids used for muscle enhancement is right. Anyone that has used it for those purposes are cheaters. There are other substances taken for performance enhancement which are questionable too. Palmeiro is the only 500 HR club hitter that has tested positive under the MLB system.

The comments you take as defending Bonds simply state that nobody knows 100% that Bonds knowingly used steroids. The "cream" incident is certainly open for debate. This new book (published for big profit) is certainly open for debate.

This forum is great because you can formulate your own opinions. I will give an opinion of Barry Bonds pre-1999 that I believe if he retired then he would have been a 1st ballot HOFer based on his stats which were amazing up to then in the Regular season.

[JETEFAN]

Re: Barry Bonds Issues

BOTTOM LINE......STERIOD BONDS IS CHASING THE MOST SACRED RECORD IN THIS GREAT GAME OF BASEBALL, CHASING TWO OF THE GAMES GREATEST WHO REACHED THEIR GOALS ON GOD GIVEN TALENT ( MAYBE THE BEER AND HOT DOGS HELPED RUTH!). FOR ANYONE TO THINK HE WAS NOT USING, BY THE WAY HE ALREADY ADMITTED TO IT, THOUGH HE SAYS HE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT IT WAS... , GET BACK TO REALITY!!! BONDS + STERIODS = ADVANTAGE!!!!!!!
LET'S REMEMBER BONDS FOR BEING ONE OF THE GREATS BEFORE STEROIDS, ANYTHING AFTER THAT IS CACA!!!!!

[Yankwood]

Re: Barry Bonds Issues

YES! And if anyone says they don't know 100% whether Bonds took steroids, say hello to the ostrich right next to you, cuz I don't wanna hear it!

[33bird]

Re: Barry Bonds Issues

My man Trsent. Let me preface this by saying I enjoy most of your posts. You're very active on here and I like that. But, I just don't get your reasoning. I guess it's kindof like debating religion. Hardly anybody ever changes their mind when you fight about it. Anyway, were not saying taking steroids is equal to murder or rape. Just that murder and rape aren't specifically in the MLB rules. But if bonds murdered or raped he would pay the price for breaking that law. Steroids was against the law so MLB didn't have to put it in their rules-just like murder and rape. Your Aaron analogy wasn't a good point. He hit 35+ HRs at age 37? Big deal. Did he hit 73 at age 37 like Bonds? 73-37? That's a big difference. Throw Aaron on the juice maybe he could have hit 70 instead of 37. I know there are a few exceptions to the rule, but almost ALL players start declining at around age 35. They don't suddenly become greater for the next 6 or 7 years. As for the guy who keeps posting on here that Roids were around since 1956 and we can't trust any player since then, is just idiotic. Show us some good proof of that. I've never heard any. Except that Tom House or somebody tried it for a little bit or something. But the Bonds proof is everywhere. You bonds fans just won't see the truth. It's all there but you refuse to see it. Maybe you have his game used Rookie jersey in your closet and you can't accept it's worth half of what you paid for it now. I don't know. That's my 2 cents.
Birdie

[mwbosoxfan]

Re: Barry Bonds Issues

As for the guy who keeps posting on here that Roids were around since 1956 and we can't trust any player since then, is just idiotic.
Birdie

I can’t speak for “the guy who says roids have been around since 1956” (actually he says since the 30’s), but I don’t think what he has stated is idiotic. I think 99.99 percent of people believe that Bonds is guilty of steroid use, based on all of the circumstantial evidence that has come to light. The evidence came to light because of an investigation. The investigation was initiated on suspicion. There are sources of circumstantial evidence indicting hundreds of players for steroid use and use of other illegal substances. Some of these sources are less substantial than what has been published about Bonds as of late, but nevertheless, they exist.

So, we throw Barry out of baseball, strip all of his records away. Done, gone. I don’t have a problem with that. But, what do we do now. More books are written, more players are indicted. With enough resources and time, I’m sure reporters can find enough evidence about the truth about hundreds of players that used steroids to gain an advantage. Some of these players will be found guilty, and believe me, they will be found guilty. Not from a stored urine sample in a lab from 10 or 15 years ago, but because after probing deep enough, there is overwhelming circumstantial evidence to make the same conclusion as Barry Bonds. Fine, again not a problem. None of these players are chasing a home run record, but they are now gone, too.

But wait, one of those players hit a game winning home run in game 7 of a league championship series and went on to win the World Series. One player actually pitched a four hitter in game six of a World Series to win the series. Another player stole a base in game 4 of an LCS game, was safe by an inch, and went on to win that game and 7 more straight games to a World Series Championship. What do we do with those records?

My point is that there is evidence if we want to find it, all the way back to 1956 or the 1930’s, or whenever. Nobody who loves baseball likes any of the abuse, cheating, or anything else dirty that has happened in the sport throughout its history, especially the steroid issue. If you throw Bonds out, I don’t know how baseball can simply go forward from here without going backwards.

[trsent]

Re: Barry Bonds Issues

Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio?

[yanks12025]

Re: Barry Bonds Issues

Ok
All i have to say is Bonds Sucks. And that if it was not against baseball and then why did it take him four years to tell everyone. And does anybody know what that book is called.

[trsent]

Re: Barry Bonds Issues

All i have to say is Bonds Sucks. And that if it was not against baseball and then why did it take him four years to tell everyone. And does anybody know what that book is called.

Do you think he finishes the job?

I don't know the name of the book, but here is a picture of the cover:

[33bird]

Re: Barry Bonds Issues

Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio?

That's exactly right! Thank you Trsent. Your best quote ever. Where have all the non-cheaters gone? I'll take Teddy Ballgame and Joe D. over Big Mac and Barry Bonds anyday. Could you imagine Joe D. and Teddy if they roided up for 1/2 their careers? Awesome baby! But I'm glad they didn't or 2/3 of America's fans wouldn't accept anything they did. Including me.
Birdie

[sfgiants452]

Re: Barry Bonds Issues

I am not asking this question so we can argue for the next hour. I just want a honest answer. For all of the people that have read these posts, think of your all-time favorite player. The player that you loved since you were a kid. Now lets say they were accused of something. Would you or would you not defend them to the very end? Even if there may be evidence saying that they did a crime. Would you or would you not defend him until that judge says that he was guilty? Please give an honest answer. THANKS

Anthony

[33bird]

Re: Barry Bonds Issues

It would be tuff. I understand that. You'll probably dislike me even more after I tell you this: My favorite current player is Jeff Kent. Sorry. If you love Bonds you probably don't care for kent. But, in all honesty. if all the evidence came out against kent that has come against Bonds, I would say see you later, sell my gamer stuff of kent, and count my losses. I wouldn't stick my head in the sand and say, "I don't care if there's mountains of evidence, he's innocent until convicted or until he confesses." He might never get convicted-ala, OJ Simpson. He might not confess for 20 years, or never-ala, Peter Rose. It doesn't matter. He's 100% guilty either way. Just like OJ and Pete. I would say, "Say it ain't so Barry." Then I'd move on and fine me a clean, noncheating superstar to follow. I'm not saying he's not a HOF. I'm not saying he wasn't one of the greatest ever. He is. BUT, everything he's done since 1999 is tainted. Especially all the HR's. I've really read up on everything. All the articles, books, etc. I wanted him to be clean-he's not. There's just no way. In my opinion, I think he should retire and not taint the all-time HR records of Ruth and Aaron. He's already tainted Maris's 61 record (I think Maris still has it since Sosa and Big Mac juiced in 98 and after). Put him in the hof eventually, not first ballot, and on his HOF plaque mention that he used steroids from 99-05 (or whatever) so some of his marks are questionable/tainted at best. Same with Big Mac. Same with Pete Rose. Just put on his plaque he was removed from pro baseball for gambling, but put him in. I put in rose before: Bonds, Sosa, and Big Mac. Just my 2 cents. Just something to think about. I don't think we can just say, "Oh well, it happened, let's move on." SOMETHING needs to happen to them. I'm not exactly sure what, but I like my idea for the HOF thing.
Birdie

[yanks12025]

Re: Barry Bonds Issues

I have to agree with you there. I would with the player i like. But come on it aint time till the real truth comes out about bonds. Yes alot of ppl lobe bonds and also now alot of ppl hate him. I could care less about him and steriods. I really just dont want him to brake babe ruth and Hank aarons records because they did it for the game. And bonds had to cheat to get to the top.

Bonds Hater

[sfgiants452]

Re: Barry Bonds Issues

I am glad you understand and I hope everybody else does. I have been watching Bonds most of my life and hard for me to not defend him. The only way other people will understand this, is if they had that one favorite player that they loved since they were little. Thanks for the honest answer.

Anthony

[bigtime59]

Re: Barry Bonds Issues

I'm glad someone else brought OJ into this before I decided to post:
During the trial, I was asked if I thought OJ was guilty, or if LAPD had planted evidence. My answer was "yes." I believe that OJ did it, and I believe that LAPD planted evidence to ensure a slam dunk at trial.
The point? I believe Barry Bonds is guilty of taking steroids, HGH, whatever. I also believe that MLB ownership deliberately looked the other way, as balls flew over the walls, and fannies filled the seats emptied by the egregiously stupid 1994 strike/lockout. Both sides are to blame for the fact that records of the 1995-2005 period are going to be tainted by the cloud of steroids.
But, let's face it, kids...we may hold baseball's record books sacred, and believe they allow us to accurately compare players from different eras...and we're completely full of s**t. I'm 5'8, 185. Never taken a performance enhancing drug...never even taken a nutritional supplement. By today's standards, I'm probably below average in height, and around average in weight. By the standards of the 1930s, I'm tall and fat. Even without performance enhancing drugs, a different breed of people (bigger, faster, stronger) is playing a different game in different places than that which was played in the (pick your decade here). If Barry Bonds breaks Ruth's record I doubt 500 people outside of San Francisco is going to celebrate it. I doubt even Barry, narcissist that he is, is stupid or crazy enough to try to go after Aaron at this point. If Aaron was dead, maybe. But not when he's alive.
I'd put Bonds in the HOF...for what he did through 1998. And on his plaque, I'd note every drug he took, every injection, everything he did to damage himself in the long term for the good of the short term.
Steroid use isn't like murder. It's like stealing. Stealing from the fans, from the players who don't juice, from the game itself. Stealing is against the laws of the land, and I would hope, against the laws of baseball, too.
Mark Sutton
bigtime59