1990 McGWIRE JERSEY-NOT!!!!!

[hblakewolf]

Re: 1990 McGWIRE JERSEY-NOT!!!!!

Howard, I have not talked to Brad Horne in about four years, the last time he called me when he was in Las Vegas. I did talk to a gentleman named Steve about this jersey as Steve has bought from me in the past.

Joel-
You stated, "I did speak with the seller about this item this morning, and they are really hot that your post came up stating their item was not genuine without first discussing it with them. "

The Ebay seller who is offering this jersey is THEBOOK25. Is the seller's legal name Brad Horne?

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[Eric]

Re: 1990 McGWIRE JERSEY-NOT!!!!!

The seller is named Steve Hicks. He told me you sent him one email, not two and it was just before 5pm sunday- after you posted here.

Steve said "I would take it down right now if it was deemed bad....I just dont want to take it off just because one person has a bad opinion on it....there has been a lot of interest and I have received a lot of emails about it....BUT once again if it was bad, I would not allow it to sell on Ebay."

Steve said he was never given a chance to answer questions before being contacted by people saying his item was being called out on the forum.

[nycsports]

Re: 1990 McGWIRE JERSEY-NOT!!!!!

Howard,

It's kind of ironic, that all you ever do is tell people "do your homework" , "do your homework" , "do your homework" yet you obviously didn't do your own homework here! I found 3 pictures in my collection of McGwire wearing a jersey with the same lettering style as the one listed on eBay. I don't have a digital camera, but I will try get the pics posted to this board soon.

[Eric]

Re: 1990 McGWIRE JERSEY-NOT!!!!!

Please post the pic as soon as you can. Are the photos from 1990?
Eric

[hblakewolf]

Re: 1990 McGWIRE JERSEY-NOT!!!!!

Howard,

It's kind of ironic, that all you ever do is tell people "do your homework" , "do your homework" , "do your homework" yet you obviously didn't do your own homework here! I found 3 pictures in my collection of McGwire wearing a jersey with the same lettering style as the one listed on eBay. I don't have a digital camera, but I will try get the pics posted to this board soon.

Actually NYCSPORTS, please read my original post on this issue....

"I welcome someone to produce a photo from 1990 with the C placed in a similar fashion as the one offered on Ebay."

Hats off to you for doing your homework! Not only did you find one photo, but three!

You just proved what has been stated here before-the vast knowledge pool of the Forum readers is AMAZING, and allows us to determine specific traits, authenticity and related in a quick and easy fashion that proves to be an extremely valubale tool to our fellow collectors in this ever growing "hobby".

Thanks-we look forward to the photos.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[whatupyos]

Re: 1990 McGWIRE JERSEY-NOT!!!!!

Howard was just making an observation on the jersey in a fair way. Everyone is giving him crap about not letting ample time for the email to be responded too...Most people check their email 5 times a day, so it should have been responded too. Everyone has a title to their opinion, so who really cares if the seller is pissed or not, and who cares if there was no email to the seller before posting, it was a reference Howard made, he wasn't attacking the seller, so just let it go.

[hblakewolf]

Re: 1990 McGWIRE JERSEY-NOT!!!!!

The seller is named Steve Hicks. He told me you sent him one email, not two and it was just before 5pm sunday- after you posted here.

Steve said "I would take it down right now if it was deemed bad....I just dont want to take it off just because one person has a bad opinion on it....there has been a lot of interest and I have received a lot of emails about it....BUT once again if it was bad, I would not allow it to sell on Ebay."

Steve said he was never given a chance to answer questions before being contacted by people saying his item was being called out on the forum.

Eric:
For your information, Steve Hicks ran Brad Horne's card shop in Florence, SC. Many of the items currently listed on eBay were once on Brad's site at collectsports.net. Florence, SC isn't a big city, and that was where Brad Horne's business was also based.


FYI

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[Eric]

Re: 1990 McGWIRE JERSEY-NOT!!!!!

That's all fine and good, but I asked the seller hours ago if he was Brad or knew Brad. And you are correct he used to work there, but the seller is Steve Hicks.

And all of this trouble would have been avoided if either- you worded the thread differently so it didn't suggest that the McGwire jersey was not as listed (see the thread title)
OR
You followed the rules and gave the seller a chance to respond.

There are no buts here. This is a clear "shoot first and ask questions later" scenario. That is not tolerated here.

If you're looking for another version of this, please see the thread which says the Mariners jersey being sold by Ball Park Heroes was a fake. No attempt was made to ask the seller question there either.

Here the assumptions are wrong. And on that one, the assumptions were wrong.

I'll say it again and again and again and again and again, even though I'm ready to bang my head against the wall. Be responsible with your words. There's no other way.
Eric

Eric:
For your information, Steve Hicks ran Brad Horne's card shop in Florence, SC. Many of the items currently listed on eBay were once on Brad's site at collectsports.net. Florence, SC isn't a big city, and that was where Brad Horne's business was also based.


FYI

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[trsent]

Re: 1990 McGWIRE JERSEY-NOT!!!!!

Howard was just making an observation on the jersey in a fair way. Everyone is giving him crap about not letting ample time for the email to be responded too...Most people check their email 5 times a day, so it should have been responded too. Everyone has a title to their opinion, so who really cares if the seller is pissed or not, and who cares if there was no email to the seller before posting, it was a reference Howard made, he wasn't attacking the seller, so just let it go.

So when Howard posted that a jersey was "1990 McGWIRE JERSEY-NOT!!!!!" he wasn't making a comment that the jersey is no good in his views? If Howard had just posted something such as:

"Please look at this auction: LINK. I have found two images on Getty Images that have a different placement for the "C" in McGwire, can anyone help me photo-match the jersey in the auction with a 1990 Mark McGwire game photo I would appreciate it."

There would be no issues. Howard posted using only the photos on Getty Images, which is not a big enough selection of Mac's back to determine that a jersey is "NOT!!!!!" authentic. Even if there were 1000 pictures, that doesn't mean the jersey is not authentic anyway, time has taught us there can be jerseys worn and not all photographed for distribution such as Getty Images.

As for the other points made in this post, I do not know if Steve works with or for Brad Horne anymore, but I have known both for years and I know that if there is a legitimate issue found they would address it. By the way, I just checked, and the population of Florence, SC is just over 125,000.

http://www.cityrating.com/citystats.asp?city=Florence&state=SC

That is a pretty big city in my book...

[bigtime59]

Re: 1990 McGWIRE JERSEY-NOT!!!!!

Threads like this one are a major reason I'm considering getting out of this hobby.
So, Howard was a little chippy in his first post (not like I've ever done that before--oh, wait, I have) and now everybody wants to ride his back on the downward road to perdition...
...well, kiddies, remember this...the people who make these jerseys don't care one one thousandth as much about them as we do. It's half a miracle the "c" didn't wind up before the "M." We've all seen error jerseys up close and personal...and we've all seen the daily deluge of fake superstar jerseys that continues to swamp this hobby. The first rule of caution still applies: alleged superstar jerseys not sourced directly from the team are guilty until proven innocent...and too expensive for me to afford until I can find that damned winning lottery ticket.

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: 1990 McGWIRE JERSEY-NOT!!!!!

The first rule of caution still applies: alleged superstar jerseys not sourced directly from the team are guilty until proven innocent...

You are correct, Sir.
I actually believe ALL superstar jerseys, regardless of the seller, are suspect. Scrubs, bench-warmers and commons are still worth collecting!

[CollectGU]

Re: 1990 McGWIRE JERSEY-NOT!!!!!

Let's get back to the basic premise her. Howard calls a jersey a fake and provides Getty images to valdate his reasons, THEN e-mails the seller, THEN his use of Getty images to call the jersey fake is used to DISPROVE his assumptions and accusations, Then he uses the lame excuse that Getty is "not reliable with their dating" blah,blah,blah..

Howard you were wrong, just say so and let's move on...

[trsent]

Re: 1990 McGWIRE JERSEY-NOT!!!!!

The first rule of caution still applies: alleged superstar jerseys not sourced directly from the team are guilty until proven innocent...and too expensive for me to afford until I can find that damned winning lottery ticket.

Wait a second, just like OJ and Bonds, oh wait, I won't go down that road...

The issue here is simply that Steve has a jersey that come with a letter from Grey Flannel, so he has done his homework, and it appears the two photos provided by Howard are both from the post season (it appears Canseco has a patch on his sleeve) so there is no positive evidence that there is any issues with this jersey.

Your personal policy may be not to buy a big name player without a team letter, but that is not the general buying public's view. I do not think it matters if you are buying or questioning a $25.00 or $250,000.00 jersey.

Howard may have jumped the gun, but we are not attacking Howard, I spoke to him on the telephone today and we had a nice conversation. I may debate topics with Howard (and Rudy before he disappeared, come home already Rudy) but I do consider Howard a friend who appreciates debate. I asked him to question items in a different method so that the forum doesn't get accused of picking on items as easily as this thread.

What some users who use this forum forget is Eric and Chris have legal obligations to keep the forum clean of accusations without investigation (and the user who told us earlier that a person generally checks his email 4-5 times a day is wrong. Some people don't touch their computer for the weekend, so that was not a fair point) because it may lead to legal issues that they do not wish to deal with.

[bigtime59]

Re: 1990 McGWIRE JERSEY-NOT!!!!!

Your personal policy may be not to buy a big name player without a team letter, but that is not the general buying public's view. I do not think it matters if you are buying or questioning a $25.00 or $250,000.00 jersey.

My personal policy is to not consider "big name player" jerseys, period. I can't afford them, period. Also, like a corpse attracts flies, the prospect of big money to be made on "big name player" jerseys attracts an unsavory element to this hobby.
So, even if I eliminated the ca$h factor from the equation, I cannot eliminate the criminal factor w/o dealing directly with teams, or with dealers I wholeheartedly trust. (And there aren't many of those.)
Did I mention I'm thinking of getting out?