thoughts on upcomming jeter jersey in GFC's auction.

[lund6771]

Re: thoughts on upcomming jeter jersey in GFC's auction.

Rudy....Is there an additional red flag since it does not come with a Steiner letter?

[kingjammy24]

Re: thoughts on upcomming jeter jersey in GFC's auction.

Rudy....Is there an additional red flag since it does not come with a Steiner letter?

the steiner deal came about in 2005. while it's true that steiner received decades worth of old shirts, i imagine some yankee shirts got out in all of the years prior to 2005. at least, that's the reasoning that could be given; that the shirt was acquired prior to 2005.

for me, the issues are

1) double-sewn bottom of the mfr tag, suggesting it's been opened up and resewn. if it was any other edge except the bottom it wouldn't be nearly as damning. the bottom edge is the one of course that holds the "jeter-96" strip tag and poly tag.

2) armband is sewn too low.

3) russell tag is circa 1993-95.

4) poly tag is as crisp as a fall morning in vermont. it's a little odd to see a faded strip tag with a poly tag that hasn't even begun to curl in the least. usually the curling starts first, then the fading.

#1 is pretty bad. #2 just makes it worse. #3 isn't a huge issue. #4 isn't good. "premier lot".

rudy.

[trsent]

Re: thoughts on upcomming jeter jersey in GFC's auction.

this hasn't been my experience in the least. let's see some photos posted of a good amount of 96 and 97 commons showing 93-95 tags. besides, i don't even have that much of an issue with the tag per se. the fact that bottom has been resewn is the big issue.



what an expert. i love it. i didn't post a 1998 tigers tag. i posted a 1994 tigers tag. you know what your expert friend did joel? they read the last number on the tag - 98 - and thought it was the year instead of the inventory number. expert: what's the first number on the tag? 94 right? that's the year. the last number on a tigers tag is always the inventory number. here's another 1994 tigers tag. i'm guessing your expert thinks it's from 1960 right?



joel why do you listen to people like this?

rudy.

Rudy, my friend is one of the two modern experts I use for jerseys. Sorry if he made an error reading your image of a Tigers tag, but he wants me to wager with you that we can come up with multiple samples of such jerseys used in future years. So he misread an image - You could sit down with him and learn something if you looked at his comments as his knowledge of the modern era baseball jerseys is one I would rank up there with yours.

Were his other comments not valid and useful information or is he just going to be picked on for misreading an image of a tag? He made valid points that you ignored.

Everything else you posted is true.

1996 and 1997 Russell Baseball jerseys can have the tags carried over often on size 46 and 50 from the 1993-1995 tagged jerseys.

Do you not accept this point as realistic?

[kingjammy24]

Re: thoughts on upcomming jeter jersey in GFC's auction.

"1996 and 1997 Russell Baseball jerseys can have the tags carried over often on size 46 and 50 from the 1993-1995 tagged jerseys.

Do you not accept this point as realistic?"

i know they can, which is why i stated about 3 times now that the earlier-era tag isn't a big deal. if there's any contention, it's over how common this practice was. i know it occurred but your mysterious friend says it was "extremely common". anyway, i think this issue isn't truly relevant to this thread because it doesn't change things either way. the truth is if the tag hadn't been resewn and if the armband had been sewn in the proper place, i wouldn't have posted about the jersey at all. on the other hand, if we say the russell tag itself is A-OK, then we're still left with the most glaring issues of the resewn tag and the armband sewn too low. the issue of the carried-over russell tag does nothing to either of those two issues. we can discuss it all day long and at the end of the day you're still left with those 2 main issues on the jersey so what's the point?

if you want to discuss the issue, you can start another thread about the commonality of carried over russell tags and we can discuss it there. seeing as how your friend sent you emails, it seems safe to assume he has access to a computer. i'm not sure why he's using you as an intermediary. it'd seem easier for him to post directly so that you don't end up misinterpreting or miscommunicating his points.

"My friend provided some valid information, especially about jersey sizes and tags being carried over from year to year that is being ignored in a discussion to better educate the hobby"

it wasn't ignored. i stated early on that carryovers being "extremely common" wasn't consistent with my experience. what more to say? the reason there's no effort to focus on this issue is because it's a non-issue in regards to this specific 1996 jeter jersey. i said numerous times it wasn't a big deal. i said it simply because i thought that anyone preparing to spend big bucks on such an iconic shirt as a jeter home rookie gamer should know that the tag is out-of-era. it's a non-issue because even if you accept the tag was carried over, then you're still left with 2 huge elephants in the room. to me, this discussion should focus on those elephants and not on something that's a relatively minor, inconsequential issue. to me, even the lack of wear seen on the crisp poly tag is a bigger issue than the carried-over russell tag.

rudy.

[trsent]

Re: thoughts on upcomming jeter jersey in GFC's auction.

"1996 and 1997 Russell Baseball jerseys can have the tags carried over often on size 46 and 50 from the 1993-1995 tagged jerseys.

Do you not accept this point as realistic?"

i know they can, which is why i stated about 3 times now that the earlier-era tag isn't a big deal. if there's any contention, it's over how common this practice was. i know it occurred but your mysterious friend says it was "extremely common". anyway, i think this issue isn't truly relevant to this thread because it doesn't change things either way. the truth is if the tag hadn't been resewn and if the armband had been sewn in the proper place, i wouldn't have posted about the jersey at all. on the other hand, if we say the russell tag itself is A-OK, then we're still left with the most glaring issues of the resewn tag and the armband sewn too low. the issue of the carried-over russell tag does nothing to either of those two issues. we can discuss it all day long and at the end of the day you're still left with those 2 main issues on the jersey so what's the point?

if you want to discuss the issue, you can start another thread about the commonality of carried over russell tags and we can discuss it there. seeing as how your friend sent you emails, it seems safe to assume he has access to a computer. i'm not sure why he's using you as an intermediary. it'd seem easier for him to post directly so that you don't end up misinterpreting or miscommunicating his points.

"My friend provided some valid information, especially about jersey sizes and tags being carried over from year to year that is being ignored in a discussion to better educate the hobby"

it wasn't ignored. i stated early on that carryovers being "extremely common" wasn't consistent with my experience. what more to say? the reason there's no effort to focus on this issue is because it's a non-issue in regards to this specific 1996 jeter jersey. i said numerous times it wasn't a big deal. i said it simply because i thought that anyone preparing to spend big bucks on such an iconic shirt as a jeter home rookie gamer should know that the tag is out-of-era. it's a non-issue because even if you accept the tag was carried over, then you're still left with 2 huge elephants in the room. to me, this discussion should focus on those elephants and not on something that's a relatively minor, inconsequential issue. to me, even the lack of wear seen on the crisp poly tag is a bigger issue than the carried-over russell tag.

rudy.

Rudy, no one doubted your finds about the Jeter jersey. I was just expanding the discussion. You made points and when we showed one of them to have alternatives, you rub it in my face that the point is the weakest of the points you made so I should start a new thread? What?

You made points, and the one you find weakest we showed is not a fully valid reason. The other points are valid issues and good for you keeping them close to the topic but do not discredit me for bringing valid information to the discussion because you find it discredits the weakest of your reasoning for questioning this item.

Also, sorry - I have friends who will not post on this forum as they do not appreciate the way people are abused. You can get over it or you can let me post.

Notice often I quote people who email me. Sometimes I attribute it and sometimes I don't. Some people just don't want the headaches I deal with because of the abuse I receive for making comments to a discussion and I can see why they email me instead of posting.

[nyjetsfan14]

Re: thoughts on upcomming jeter jersey in GFC's auction.

Great job Rudy, the efforts are much appreciated by me and most/all board members I am sure. Though I am not a baseball collector your findings do help me become more aware and educated about the hobby as a whole. Your knowledge, posts, inquisitive nature, and the way you project all three is a major reason this board is such a valuable resource. I know I speak for many when I say thanks and keep up the awesome work and contributions to the hobby and forum alike.

[clinton2828]

Re: thoughts on upcomming jeter jersey in GFC's auction.

when i called gfc they had no explination for the double stitching, they jsut said, if you dont feel comfortable dont bid.

i am goin to pass on the jersey.

[kingjammy24]

Re: thoughts on upcomming jeter jersey in GFC's auction.

when i called gfc they had no explination for the double stitching, they jsut said, if you dont feel comfortable dont bid.

i am goin to pass on the jersey.

the bigger question is why GFC feels comfortable with it. they have no explanation for this anomaly yet they're comfortable with it and will run it anyway? nice. they don't know why it'd be resewn and apparently they don't care. as long as the shirt fetches a good price. and then richie whines and bitches about the forum. richie, if you wouldn't run jerseys with resewn tags then maybe people wouldn't complain and you wouldn't feel attacked. richie strikes me as the sort of guy who shoots himself in the foot and then complains that it hurts.

i've seen many russell shirts from this era and if it were me, i wouldn't touch any russell gamer with a resewn mfr tag. the fact that this is a superstar rookie gamer and the fact that the armband is sewn lower than can be seen in many other 1996 yankees photos makes the whole thing even worse.

rudy.

[mvandor]

Re: thoughts on upcomming jeter jersey in GFC's auction.

Is not this jersey MLB Authenticated? If you feel the jersey is bad, how did it get that authentication?

Just curious.

[kingjammy24]

Re: thoughts on upcomming jeter jersey in GFC's auction.

Is not this jersey MLB Authenticated? If you feel the jersey is bad, how did it get that authentication?

Just curious.

the jersey is not MLB authenticated. how would the MLB authenticate a 13 yr old jersey? if you go to http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/authentication/
and type in the number found on the hologram - MT 00092701 - you'll see that the MLB authentication pertains only to the derek jeter autograph:

Session Name: DEREK JETER PRIVATE SIGNING
Session Date: September 12, 2002
Autographer: DEREK JETER
Authenticator: AUTHENTICATORS, INC.
Additional Information: NYY JERSEY

i have no doubt the signature is legit. the jersey on the other hand is another story.

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

Re: thoughts on upcomming jeter jersey in GFC's auction.

"Q: How can I get my personal memorabilia authenticated under the MLB Authentication Program?

A: Unfortunately, we do not authenticate past autographs or game-used items. Currently, our system only authenticates items that are directly witnessed by a designated MLB Authenticator at the moment it is signed or used and only in conjunction with a Club or MLB Authentication Licensee."

rudy.

[clinton2828]

Re: thoughts on upcomming jeter jersey in GFC's auction.

i dont think we can let this thread die, someone might throw away alot of money if it is not real. i think the double stitching on the tag is questionable but maybe explainable, i think the better argument is the placement of the black arm bad. that one is a SLAM DUNK, if no photo evidence is produce to counter the several pics alrady posted!

hell i hope we find pics that prove us wrong i would bid to win but i wont spend that type of $$ will all these quesitons.

[flaco1801]

Re: thoughts on upcomming jeter jersey in GFC's auction.

rudy why was the tag re sewn? what could have been changed? .. and somebody tell me why to buy from an auction house? ty, jeff

[kingjammy24]

Re: thoughts on upcomming jeter jersey in GFC's auction.

what could have been changed? ..

the "jeter-96" strip tag.

rudy.

[flaco1801]

Re: thoughts on upcomming jeter jersey in GFC's auction.

gotcha thanks..