1997 Mac Jersey-french Jackie Patch????

[hblakewolf]

Current offering in the Lelands auction:

1997 Cardinals McGwire home jersey worn on Labor Day, 1997:

http://www.lelands.com/bid.aspx?lot=542&auctionid=905

By no means am I questioning the autneticity, just insight on the Jackie Robinson patch. This particular jersey features the French version.


As was the norm for the Cardinals and non-Canadian teams, the English version was worn on the sleeve, not the French version. Does anyone have any insight as to why this special set of jerseys would feature this French version Jackie patch?

As a side note, the regular season game jerseys did not feature front numbers, yet these one day specials did.

Any insight about the patch is appreciated.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@comcast.net

[Birdbats]

Re: 1997 Mac Jersey-french Jackie Patch????

Howard,

I've seen two other jerseys from this game -- a Matt Morris with the French patch and a Gary Gaetti with the English patch. My hunch is that Rawlings, knowing the jerseys were being made for one game only, just used whatever was on hand. Maybe they saw an opportunity to rid themselves of a few remaining French patches. Or maybe it was just an error on their part. The fact they mistakenly put uniform numbers on the front tells me they weren't exactly paying close attention during the process of prepping these particular jerseys.

[panthrotc]

Re: 1997 Mac Jersey-french Jackie Patch????

when i first saw this jersey in the auction, i was about to throw down ALOT of money for it. Well i did my homework and it turns out McGwire had only 1 at bat in the game. He pinch hit. All that money for a jersey that he had 1 measly At bat...Nah ill pass. Nice auto, but i need more use then 1 at bat.

[mattmueller]

Re: 1997 Mac Jersey-french Jackie Patch????

Yeah, but he had 2 plate appearances - one walk one K.

[skyking26]

Re: 1997 Mac Jersey-french Jackie Patch????

Homework is always the key on buying. I like many have been looking for a Mac GU Cards Home jersey for years. You can goto retrosheet.org and check it out. Now up to near $2000 for a jersey Mac pinch hit in walking and striking out. He played 1st and made 3 put-outs. Wow... I think I'll pass.


RK

[hblakewolf]

Re: 1997 Mac Jersey-french Jackie Patch????

This is one hell of a great Mac jersey:

1. Worn only for the Cardinals special event with the rare one day patch


2. Comes with a team LOA

3. Autographed (although vertical between the back #'s). Good luck
getting a game jersey signed by MAC since he retired!

The shirt was worn for the special event, is perfect in every fashion, and has a team LOA.

Why the negative posts? If collectors are seeking a regular season game shirt, keep looking and I'm sure you'll locate one at a later date. Otherwise, don't diminish this particular jersey that's being offered by Lelands simply for the fact that it was only worn for nine innings.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@comcast.net

[mattmueller]

Re: 1997 Mac Jersey-french Jackie Patch????

Howard - My prior post was not meant to taint the jersey. If anything, I was providing the prior poster enough information to double his best bid, 1 PA vs. 2 PA. Anyhow, all kidding aside, I don't think people are trashing the value of the jersey, just providing thoughts of relative value.

To me, part of the value of having a McGwire jersey is having something worn when making baseball history. Especially with a McGwire on its way to a $3,000 price tag, I think people are hopeful that history is a homerun or two, or something more than 2 uneventful trips to the plate. Of course, the flip side of this are the rare aspects of the jersey you discussed, home Cards, auto'd, weird French patch. And one you didn't mention, the atypical-for-'97-jerseys numbers on the front enhance display of the jersey from the front. Bottom line is would you pay more for the potential piece of baseball history, or a nearly certain authentic piece? Some prefer the history I guess.

As a bidder on the jersey, I don't mind seeing people call issue to the jersey's obvious "flaws", or at least flaws to their perceived value. The fewer interested bidders the better. The one question I had, and please take no offense, is where the defense of the jersey and its value comes from on your end? Is it a subconcious love of all things McGwire, and with it a defense of the value of your collection? I am guilty of this with McGwire and Favre. Was the jersey ever in your collection? Are you the consignor? Just want to see Lelands have a successful auction? Just curious.

Matt

[kingjammy24]

Re: 1997 Mac Jersey-french Jackie Patch????

I think people are hopeful that history is a homerun or two, or something more than 2 uneventful trips to the plate.

collectors seem to go coocoo over mother's day pink bats and jackie robinson day jerseys.

anyway, getty images has a shot of mcgwire taking a swing from this game and the shot shows the JR patch. maybe if someone has access to getty's high-res photos, like barry meisel, they could see if the patch in the photo is the french version.

rudy.

[hblakewolf]

Re: 1997 Mac Jersey-french Jackie Patch????

Howard - My prior post was not meant to taint the jersey. If anything, I was providing the prior poster enough information to double his best bid, 1 PA vs. 2 PA. Anyhow, all kidding aside, I don't think people are trashing the value of the jersey, just providing thoughts of relative value.

To me, part of the value of having a McGwire jersey is having something worn when making baseball history. Especially with a McGwire on its way to a $3,000 price tag, I think people are hopeful that history is a homerun or two, or something more than 2 uneventful trips to the plate. Of course, the flip side of this are the rare aspects of the jersey you discussed, home Cards, auto'd, weird French patch. And one you didn't mention, the atypical-for-'97-jerseys numbers on the front enhance display of the jersey from the front. Bottom line is would you pay more for the potential piece of baseball history, or a nearly certain authentic piece? Some prefer the history I guess.

As a bidder on the jersey, I don't mind seeing people call issue to the jersey's obvious "flaws", or at least flaws to their perceived value. The fewer interested bidders the better. The one question I had, and please take no offense, is where the defense of the jersey and its value comes from on your end? Is it a subconcious love of all things McGwire, and with it a defense of the value of your collection? I am guilty of this with McGwire and Favre. Was the jersey ever in your collection? Are you the consignor? Just want to see Lelands have a successful auction? Just curious.

Matt

Matt-

Regardless of 1, 2, or 3 AB's, this is a very rare style Cardinals jersey, let alone being worn by MAC. Based upon the features noted in my previous post, and the scarcity of these one game jerseys surfacing, it's a great collectible. Up until this jersey being offered in this auction, I had never seen it surface. As an avid MAC equipment collector, this would/will be a welcome addition to my collection. I've bid and consigned with Lelands for over 20 years. It's a pleasure dealing with professionals who run an honest auction. Some of my finest items were obtained through them and I hope to add one more by this weekend!

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@comcast.net

[mattmueller]

Re: 1997 Mac Jersey-french Jackie Patch????

Howard - As I indicated above, I happen to agree with you on some merits of the jersey. In a way, I was hoping you were the consignor because it means you wouldn't be bidding. Those next couple of bids sure do get pricey fast.

Rudy - I don't think anybody is disputing the jersey's authenticity, are they? As a side note, I think the Getty pic is of a mighty swing and a miss, better lower my high bid....

[skyking26]

Re: 1997 Mac Jersey-french Jackie Patch????

My post above certainly in no way is disputing the authenticity of the 97 Mac jersey. Although I want a home Cards Mac badly, it appears this one will head on to the $3K area. If I'm going to pay anywhere close to that amount, I want a gamer that has some use on it.

I left you a message on your home phone Howard regarding this. I've been told by some solid folks that the deep pocket guys are lurking in the background on this one. It's already at $2K area. I'll leave it to the big boys and try my hand at the Oakland offered. I'm hoping to make that one a home here in MI...

RK

[mr.miracle]

Re: 1997 Mac Jersey-french Jackie Patch????

My post above certainly in no way is disputing the authenticity of the 97 Mac jersey. Although I want a home Cards Mac badly, it appears this one will head on to the $3K area. If I'm going to pay anywhere close to that amount, I want a gamer that has some use on it.

I left you a message on your home phone Howard regarding this. I've been told by some solid folks that the deep pocket guys are lurking in the background on this one. It's already at $2K area. I'll leave it to the big boys and try my hand at the Oakland offered. I'm hoping to make that one a home here in MI...

RK

I don't really have a dog in this fight so to speak, I too at some point I would like to add a Cards McGwire gamer to my collection and I am in no way disputing this jersey's authenticity. However, I kind of agree with Skyking, a jersey that was worn for two at bats by McGwire in a game he did not even play the entire 9 innings running up potentially over $3k is pretty crazy at first glance. That being said, I understand what Howard is saying too. Legit McGwire Cards jersey's are nearly impossible to find and add to that the fact that this is autographed, it has the two patches and it comes with a team LOA and I can see why some serious Mac collectors are headed to the bank to cash out for this one.

Anyway, I am guessing that finding a legit McGwire with team LOA showing really good use will be next to impossible so I probably will not be adding a McGwire anytime soon.

I currently don't have anywhere near the funds available to go after this jersey good luck to those who are trying to win it.

Howard/Bob, do you guys think that McGwire will EVER sign publicly again anywhere anytime? I am kind of thinking no but I guess you can never say never definitively.

[skyking26]

Re: 1997 Mac Jersey-french Jackie Patch????

I don't really have a dog in this fight so to speak, I too at some point I would like to add a Cards McGwire gamer to my collection and I am in no way disputing this jersey's authenticity. However, I kind of agree with Skyking, a jersey that was worn for two at bats by McGwire in a game he did not even play the entire 9 innings running up potentially over $3k is pretty crazy at first glance. That being said, I understand what Howard is saying too. Legit McGwire Cards jersey's are nearly impossible to find and add to that the fact that this is autographed, it has the two patches and it comes with a team LOA and I can see why some serious Mac collectors are headed to the bank to cash out for this one.

Anyway, I am guessing that finding a legit McGwire with team LOA showing really good use will be next to impossible so I probably will not be adding a McGwire anytime soon.

I currently don't have anywhere near the funds available to go after this jersey good luck to those who are trying to win it.

Howard/Bob, do you guys think that McGwire will EVER sign publicly again anywhere anytime? I am kind of thinking no but I guess you can never say never definitively.

I can only visit history on that one Brett. When Mac first came up in the late 80's we saw him against Detroit and our parents took us to a signing Mac was doing after the game at a show. He spend the signing NOT interacting with the public and had a very attractive woman sitting on his lap the whole time. He was no more into public signings then than later in his career when he stated publically that he'd only sign at the park and would never do a paid signing again... Then, not long after retirement he does that huge deal for Steiner...something like $800 per baseball? No, I do not see him doing any public stuff now or ever....

[panthrotc]

Re: 1997 Mac Jersey-french Jackie Patch????

I am not trashing this jersey. I have alot of money saved up. If there is a mcgwire signed gamer that comes up that shows use for more then 2 at bats in 1 game, i will throw my hat in the ring and make a serious run. Iam missing a Game WORN jersey from my collection. I have game used bats, a game used hat and a batting glove. I have a 98 Game Issued jersey auto'd inscribed 70 HRS' in 98 which is a rare item in itself. But i will pass on this jersey.

Now onto my specialty, McGwire and his signings. McGwire will most likeley never do another public signing. He signed the deal with UD to issued autographed trading cards for 2 years from 2002-2003. He stated it was a 1 time deal because he knew the hobby wanted some autographed cards of his for a while. His deal with Steiner was for Big Money. The demand for his autograph's has declined. It's a joke at what you can land of him on ebay that is from the Steiner signings. 16x20's that once commanded 800+ can be had for 150 and under. Signed balls that once fetched up to 700 can be had for under 200$. I just saw a signed bat from steiner # out of 583 go for 125. With no demand for his auto, Steiner will not attempt to do any more signings with him. Unless he makes the hall, and some company wants to do some commemorative peices, do not hold your breath. The all star game is in St. Louis this year, that would be the closest thing i could think of to getting him to do a public signing, with past Cardinal greats, which is what they do in all the city's of the All Star Game. I would fork out alot to get him to sign more items of mine. I am still and always will be yearning to get my 98' gamer signed. All in all , it makes me appreciate the times i met and got auto's from him in person. It also makes me appreciate the meet and greet i did with Steiner in September of 2004.