Raines Gamer On Ebay

[Kid4hof03]

Re: Raines Gamer On Ebay

Awesome stuff! Thanks so much for sharing the pictures, I really appreciate it. My Expos stuff of his only amounts to a 1982 home jersey, 80's cold weather undershirt, 80's hat, 73-75 bat, 77-79 bat, and a 1981 all star game trophy bat.

Would love to pick your brain about Carter stuff if you ever have time, kulynychfamily@verizon.net.

Abe

[dirtyla2000]

Re: Raines Gamer On Ebay

here we go:the jersey and pants are from 82,the mask and chest protector are from 92,the shinguards are actually from the mets,the cap is from the 80 s and the bat is from 77 and its team signed!the cleats are from the 82 allstar game! nice signed equipment bag.
Abe[/quote]

[Kid4hof03]

Re: Raines Gamer On Ebay

Great Expos collection. The Dawson gold glove and silver slugger are simply fantastic. I would love to see your Carter items if you don't mind taking more pictures!

Thanks,
Abe

[dirtyla2000]

Re: Raines Gamer On Ebay

dirtyla2000: what an AWESOME collection of jerseys! Seriously, one of the more jaw-dropping things I've seen on this site (runs up there with Gameused's Sox bat collection) for sheer devotion... and thanks for adding pics of the tagging for reference also.

thankyou!

[emann]

Re: Raines Gamer On Ebay

Okay, now we're talkin!

You have a great Expo jersey collection that probably belongs in the team museum, if they still existed.

dirtyla2000: what an AWESOME collection of jerseys! Seriously, one of the more jaw-dropping things I've seen on this site (runs up there with Gameused's Sox bat collection) for sheer devotion... and thanks for adding pics of the tagging for reference also.

[sportscentury]

Re: Raines Gamer On Ebay

Salesman sample,issued jerseys or maybe even game used! I respect your description but I just dont believe in the jersey! My bad for using the word shady to begin this mess! I only collect expos jerseys and thats all I know!

Unbelievable.

[dirtyla2000]

Re: Raines Gamer On Ebay

So, what would be your explanation for these jerseys? That somebody faked them using the wrong tags, customized them, made realistic looking repairs and wore them for a while so they'd look legit? Or that Raines and Wallach carried around improperly tagged jerseys to give away to players on other teams who needed restaurant decor? I think I've presented a pretty solid case for these being legit, game-worn jerseys. Let's hear your case. If this Raines isn't a well-worn, legit jersey that simply has unusual tagging, then what do you think it is? Seriously, I'd like to hear your most logical explanation. You seem to know what they aren't. Tell us what they are.

Salesman sample,issued jerseys or maybe even game used! I respect your description but I just dont believe in the jersey! My bad for using the word shady to begin this mess! I only collect expos jerseys and thats all I know!

[Birdbats]

Re: Raines Gamer On Ebay

When there are no examples of 89 expos jerseys with red tags except for a Wallach sold in the same resto its a tough sell! In all my expos jerseys there are no tagging inconsistencies,I dont know about other teams though! I do know mine however! NOW THATS HARD TO IGNORE!

So, what would be your explanation for these jerseys? That somebody faked them using the wrong tags, customized them, made realistic looking repairs and wore them for a while so they'd look legit? Or that Raines and Wallach carried around improperly tagged jerseys to give away to players on other teams who needed restaurant decor? I think I've presented a pretty solid case for these being legit, game-worn jerseys. Let's hear your case. If this Raines isn't a well-worn, legit jersey that simply has unusual tagging, then what do you think it is? Seriously, I'd like to hear your most logical explanation. You seem to know what they aren't. Tell us what they are.

[dirtyla2000]

Re: Raines Gamer On Ebay

There are many important factors when considering buying a jersey. Among them is knowledge about the source. All hobby veterans are familiar with inconsistencies and anomolies in jerseys tagging (as well as other areas of collecting). Jeff/Birdbats is among the most respected collectors in the hobby. His responses in this thread are indicative of his professionalism. I've never seen him offer an item for which he hadn't done serious research and offered valuable insight. Whereas I might shy away from a tagging inconsistency/anomoly in many cases, here I would feel quite comfortable. I want to make clear that I have no financial interest in this jersey or Jeff's sales in general. Just my two cents, nothing more.

When there are no examples of 89 expos jerseys with red tags except for a Wallach sold in the same resto its a tough sell! In all my expos jerseys there are no tagging inconsistencies,I dont know about other teams though! I do know mine however! NOW THATS HARD TO IGNORE!

[sox83cubs84]

Re: Raines Gamer On Ebay

Okay, now we're talkin!

You have a great Expo jersey collection that probably belongs in the team museum, if they still existed.

Now that I see a comparison Rawlings tag in the collar, I'd like to know why the Raines jersey has the Red Rawlings tag that was discontinued after 1987. I'm not an Expo collector and I could be way off on this, but the red tag concerns me. Anyone care to contribute?

We agree that tagging anomalies can and do exist, and this appears to be a legitimate example of just that. While 1987 was the last year of mainstream use of the red tag, the occasional 1988 and even '89 gamer will surface with one.

FWIW...While Rawlings used the second version of the white tag predominantly in 1990-91, most of their 1990-91 TBTC uniforms ('90 White Sox, 1991 Phillies and Reds) carried a wider version of the red tag.

Dave M.
Chicago area

[sportscentury]

Re: Raines Gamer On Ebay

There are many important factors when considering buying a jersey. Among them is knowledge about the source. All hobby veterans are familiar with inconsistencies and anomolies in jerseys tagging (as well as other areas of collecting). Jeff/Birdbats is among the most respected collectors in the hobby. His responses in this thread are indicative of his professionalism. I've never seen him offer an item for which he hadn't done serious research and offered valuable insight. Whereas I might shy away from a tagging inconsistency/anomoly in many cases, here I would feel quite comfortable. I want to make clear that I have no financial interest in this jersey or Jeff's sales in general. Just my two cents, nothing more.

[karamaxjoe]

Re: Raines Gamer On Ebay

Great arguments on both sides. This forum needs more of this type of chatter. Now I know why I should just stick to stuff I know like White Sox jerseys. After 1987, the Sox stopped using the red Rawlings tag and I made an assumption that was the case for other teams. Variations do exist and Jeff gave us some good examples.

[Birdbats]

Re: Raines Gamer On Ebay

A couple more things. In terms of anomalies, I forgot to mention the 1997 Cardinals Labor Day jerseys that had numbers on the front (which the team didn't have in '97) and the French version of the Jackie Robinson patch. Those are the best examples I know that illustrate how the people who make the jerseys sometimes use whatever is available. And regarding the red label, I'd be more concerned if the jersey had a tag that was used AFTER 1989.

[Birdbats]

Re: Raines Gamer On Ebay

Hello, all. I've been out of town a couple days and haven't had a chance to chime in. Regarding the tags, they are unusual, as was discussed in this thread: http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_f...=raines+jersey

However, if you've collected long enough, you know there are no absolutes when it comes to tagging. I specialize in Cardinals, so I know that after Majestic took over in 2003, the use of year flags on St. Louis shirts has been very spotty. Back in 1992, Rawlings used two methods to tag Cardinals jerseys (photo below) -- both are perfectly legit. I've seen legit game-used Cards Rawlings jerseys, circa '87, with neck tagging that says "Adult Large" in addition to the regular tail tagging.



Anomalies exist, and knowing that they do, you look for other clues. In the case of this Raines jersey, those other clues are the significant use it shows, the team repairs, the player customizations it exhibits and the provenance. My friend, Bill Hefele, talked to Ozzie on my behalf and asked if he remembered the Raines and Wallach jerseys. Ozzie said that he did, and that he received them from the players. From that point, the Raines jersey was framed and displayed 19 years until it was auctioned, I bought it and removed it from the frame.

As for the Herzog, it has no bearing on the Raines. Ozzie had several autographed replicas in his restaurant from football and hockey players. The Herzog, I assume, was made just for display at Ozzie's -- after all, this is St. Louis. But, the non-Cardinals baseball jerseys all looked used and legit. They included a 1990 Ryne Sandberg (http://sports.ha.com/common/view_ite...7&Lot_No=82190), 1992 Tour of Japan jerseys of Griffey Jr. and Cecil Fielder (they've been offered on eBay by Zane Burns), the Tim Wallach and a few others. Just because Ozzie's displayed some autographed replicas doesn't mean every jersey on display there should be considered questionable. There were plenty of good gamers, including Ozzie's own jerseys (which he unfortunately kept).

In the end, if you're not comfortable with the tagging or the fact that the restaurant displayed some signed replicas along with real gamers, then don't bid. I don't blame you -- I don't bid if I'm not comfortable. But, as someone who's been in this hobby a while, I can say I'm completely confident with the legitimacy of this jersey. I wish all my jerseys exhibited this amount of use, customizations, team repairs and provenance.

[karamaxjoe]

Re: Raines Gamer On Ebay

Okay, now we're talkin!

You have a great Expo jersey collection that probably belongs in the team museum, if they still existed.

Now that I see a comparison Rawlings tag in the collar, I'd like to know why the Raines jersey has the Red Rawlings tag that was discontinued after 1987. I'm not an Expo collector and I could be way off on this, but the red tag concerns me. Anyone care to contribute?