Classic Auctions

[BarryMeisel]

Re: Classic Auctions

That's not accurate, Kprst6.

As Stu has already told you, we already photo-matched it.

And as Stu already told you, we are happy to take a second look at it at no charge to help eliminate your concern.

We understand that you might not be able to easily see the exact match in the photo print you have. And that is why Stu already told you that if you want to send us the jersey we will help identify the exact match for you and re-print the photo, if necessary. At no charge.

Let us know what you would like to do,

Barry

[dirtyla2000]

Re: Classic Auctions

That's not accurate, Kprst6.

As Stu has already told you, we already photo-matched it.

And as Stu already told you, we are happy to take a second look at it at no charge to help eliminate your concern.

We understand that you might not be able to easily see the exact match in the photo print you have. And that is why Stu already told you that if you want to send us the jersey we will help identify the exact match for you and re-print the photo, if necessary. At no charge.

Let us know what you would like to do,

Barry

As suspected, this dude Kprst6 is off base!

[kprst6]

Re: Classic Auctions

Stu said you photo-matched a jersey that should have had a COA with his signature. That is a fact. Fact #2 is he said there is no way he could authenticate it without pictures or having the jersey in person. I sent him pictures and he couldn't photo-match it or he hasn't responded to me. So yes, Meigray was unable to photo-match the jersey based off of what I sent Stu. The other poster asked me for pictures and I said Meigray couldn't photomatch the jersey as a response. That is a fact unless Stu has additional information. Its also off that the main COA that proves the authenticity of the jersey is missing and/or was never sent to classic. Only the cosigner knows where the COA is with Stu's signature. At this point, it doesn't feel like a coincidence that the main COA is missing that ties the jersey to the photo.

This really has nothing to do between me and Meigray. Classic Auctions sent me the original email the seller sent them and the seller even stated he couldn't find a photo-match in the photo.

There is no way I should be held accountable for paying shipping + insurance to send the jersey to you guys for re-authentication. Stu never mentioned this would not be the $100.00+ fee. HE said after looking at the scanned photos, we would proceed. The last email from him stated the COA Classic sent me was a registration only COA and the jersey COA was missing. He also said a Getty photo would never be included unless he found
a photo-match and zooming in on the digital photo would help. I sent him a response with 2 highly questionable areas that are distorted from shadows and from poor quality of the original digital photo.

Classic is talking to the cosigner to see if the have the COA, if I get the COA then the issue is resolved pending its a legitimate COA. If I don't get it, then Classic shoild have to pay Meigray for re-authentication since the jersey clearly isn't easily photo-matchable if it even photo-matchable at all.

If it can be reauthenticated at the cost of Classic, then the issue is resolved.

If it can't, then there is still an issue between Classic Auctions and I.

I only emailed Meigray because Classic took 4 days to ship the jersey, but 21 days to ship the COA. It all seemed too shady in my opinion. The fact that the jersey is highly questionable, has no clear photo-match as is stated in their auction, and doesn't have the primary COA, topped off with them getting the registration COA to me 21 days after I got the jersey, plus the fact the jersey was sent uninsured as a shirt marked as a gift, and since its from the Steve Latin era throws up a bunch of red flags. This could have easily been a Steve Latin game issued backdoor special and like most high end Penguins collectors, I won't buy vintage Pens jerseys without a photo-match.

For the price I paid, you can bet I want it to be legitimate, however it was also expensive enough to want a refund if its not as described.

[kprst6]

Re: Classic Auctions

Here are pictures of the jersey and alleged photo-match.

Again, with vintage Penguins jersey, you want a 100% conclusive photo-match. The only mark on the jersey in the front which is to the left of the "A", can be seen more clearly in this photo than in person.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/20552308@N00/5685481327/sizes/l/in/photostream/

^Picture of the jersey

http://www.flickr.com/photos/20552308@N00/5686050246/sizes/l/in/photostream/

^Alleged conclusive photo-match

Maybe I'm wrong, however I do not see any conclusive matches. Yes, the flag looks approximately correct, however the jersey is wrinkled in the photo-match and cannot be defined as a conclusive match.

[commando]

Re: Classic Auctions

Look at how the jersey in the game photo has kind of a "ridge" where the yellow fabric in the shoulders meets the white fabric. Does your jersey have that?

The other thing I noticed is the "A" on the chest. The one in the game photo seems to have a wider, 'blockier' top. It may just be the camera angle, however.

Overall, the two jerseys looks very similar.

[Neely8]

Re: Classic Auctions

Is it me or does that jersey look clean as a whistle? Is there any wear on it?

[kprst6]

Re: Classic Auctions

Look at how the jersey in the game photo has kind of a "ridge" where the yellow fabric in the shoulders meets the white fabric. Does your jersey have that?

The other thing I noticed is the "A" on the chest. The one in the game photo seems to have a wider, 'blockier' top. It may just be the camera angle, however.

Overall, the two jerseys looks very similar.

Again, we are talking a vintage Penguins jersey from the Steve Latin area. Looking similar and a conclusive photo-match are 2 different stories. I have seen tons of Lemieux and Jagr jerseys that "look similar", but it doesn't mean its a photo-match.

[kprst6]

Re: Classic Auctions

Is it me or does that jersey look clean as a whistle? Is there any wear on it?

This is just one reason why I questioned it the second I opened the box. It honestly looks brand new with the exception of 1 microscopic mark on the front of the jersey, 2 marks on the back, and 1 small mark on the back rear of the jersey.

If you take the Meigray certificate out of the picture and Classic Auctions name off as being the seller and some random seller sent you this jersey, didn't include the COA, said it was a conclusive photo-match, sent you a registration only COA 3 weeks later, sent it marked as a $50.00 "Shirt" uninsured, and then the original seller can't point out the photo-match they described as being conclusive... I'm sure you would be asking the same questions I am.

Think about it. If the item (or any item) was listed as the following(and don't forget, vintage Jagr and Lemiuex stuff needs to be 100% conclusively photo-matched):

This is an authentic game worn jersey... The cosigner has informed us and stated that the jersey "[FONT='Arial','sans-serif']comes with a Meigray photo LOA, but you can't really see a match on it. "[/FONT] (which is the email Classic Auctions forwarded me), so we can't really guarantee there is a photo-match since neither we nor the seller can find it, it's missing to original COA from Meigray, we added some details about Jagr from a prior season that has nothing to do with the 1998 season, and will send the jersey to you uninsured as a $50.00 "shirt". Oh and by the way, the registration certificate will come separately even though it would fit inside the box. You may or may not get this certificate.

If I would have known the jersey didn't come with the original COA and neither Classic Auctions nor the seller could find a conclusive photo-match, I would have never bid on the jersey. That itself is the main issue. You can't describe an item as having a "conclusive photo-match" if neither the consignee nor the auction house can give proof of the match.

[BarryMeisel]

Re: Classic Auctions

Kurt,

Almost all of what you say regarding Pens' jerseys from this era is 100% true. We agree with you.

What Stu and now I have been constantly trying to tell you is this:

We have photo-matched the jersey. We would not have sent this jersey with a photo, and registered it, unless we were 100% CERTAIN.

Like Stu has stated to you, WE WOULD BE HAPPY TO RE-PHOTO MATCH THE JERSEY FOR YOU. IN FACT, IF YOU ARE CONCERNED WITH THE COST OF SHIPPING, WE WILL PICK UP THE SHIPPING SO YOU ARE NOT OUT ONE PENNY.

And as I have already said, there is no authentication fee involved here since we already authenticated the jersey.

BUT WE NEED TO HAVE THE JERSEY HERE TO DO THE RE-PHOTO MATCHING. AND HERE IS WHY, something Stu already told you:

Sometimes, depending upon the quality of the photo and the digital reproduction, a conclusive photo-match in our office, using high quality monitors and a blowup of a photo, might not translate perfectly to a print.

Stu also mentioned to you that he would enhance and pinpoint the match for you in the photo LOA---ONCE WE GOT THE SHIRT BACK.

Happy to help, you just need to let us do the job we've offered at no cost to you.

Feel free to call me toll-free at 888-463-4472, or continue this conversation on this thread. Happy to handle it either way.

Finally, this jersey was registered as a 1998 NHL All-Star Skills Competition jersey. That is why you do not see any wear, and that is why the photo provided was one from the 1998 All-Star Skills Competition.

Regards, Barry

[kprst6]

Re: Classic Auctions

Barry,

I understand what you are saying, however my concerns have to do with the jersey not being photo-matchable. Yes I understand that you photo-matched a jersey (we can't be sure this is the same jersey unless a photo-match is found) at one point in time and the COA that Stu created would have that information on it.

When I send you the jersey (I'll meet you half way and I'm going to pay for the shipping to you guys, because I'm not trying to get something for nothing, but I think it's ridiculous that Meigray and I are out shipping & insurance costs over this), if the jersey isn't photo-matchable then what happens and who is responsible for the jersey Meigray or Classic? I really don't want to deal with both companies pointing the finger at the other company and/or at the consigner.

What if the only photo-matchable area is still questionable and not conclusive? I would say I still have a case with Classic Auctions since the original COA does not exist. I.E, it looks like this area and this area could possibly show proof of a match, but it's not conclusive. Am I required to keep the jersey now that it's certified as more of a photo-reference? If it's not a conclusive match, doesn't the value of the jersey decrease? I wouldn't have bid 1 penny if I knew the photo-match wasn't conclusive.


Shouldn't my initial email to them asking to pinpoint the photo-match location been answered a week ago if they verified it as being a conclusive match before posting it for sale? I would say yes because I paid over $300.00 in hammer fees for their guarantee. If Classic auctions themselves can't authenticate a conclusive match as was stated in their auction, they should have never listed it as being so. No where in the auction did it state that the jersey would need to be sent to Meigray for re-authentication because all parties involved did not know where the conclusive match can be found. If I would have known this information in advance, I wouldn't have bid on the jersey. If they would have contacted Meigray in advance, ironed out the photo-match questions since neither they nor the consigner could verify it, the issue would have never escalated to this point. I would still have complained about their ridiculous shipping procedure, however its shady that I got the COA 3 weeks after the jersey.


Other items in the auction were clearly incorrect and not at all researched by them such as the Steve Thomas 03/04 Red Wings Pre-Season jersey. http://www.classicauctions.net/Defau...d=61&lotid=611

He played for the Blackhawks in 02/03 and started the 03/04 season on the Ducks. The Red Wings picked him up in the middle of the 03/04 season, so it is impossible for him to have played in the pre-season for the Wings when he played for the Ducks. Items like this show they did little do little to no research on the item and it took me all but 10 seconds to Google search this information.

Again, I'm not arguing against you, I'm arguing that this should have never happened in the first place. This thread is proving Meigray is reputable, respectable, and even willing to clean up other companies messes at no charge to the customer. In this day and age, you can't say that about many companies.

Thanks for the help and I hope this jersey can be re-authenticated because I want to keep it if proven to be authentic (which I have shown my doubts loud and clear).

[BarryMeisel]

Re: Classic Auctions

Hi Kurt,

Obviously I can't answer questions or hypotheticals posed in Classic's direction, and you've posed a lot of what ifs?

Let's go one step at a time ... once we get the jersey, we will work on satisfying your desire to have a conclusive photo-match.

If you are not satisfied once we do that, then you can discuss with Classic the next steps.

Regards,
Barry

[commando]

Re: Classic Auctions

Again, we are talking a vintage Penguins jersey from the Steve Latin area. Looking similar and a conclusive photo-match are 2 different stories. I have seen tons of Lemieux and Jagr jerseys that "look similar", but it doesn't mean its a photo-match.

Why don't you tell us how this jersey can be photo matched. According to you, it cannot because there is no noticeable wear to match up. Just get to the point and say you want your money back.

[kprst6]

Re: Classic Auctions

Why don't you tell us how this jersey can be photo matched. According to you, it cannot because there is no noticeable wear to match up. Just get to the point and say you want your money back.

I am not even sure what you mean? I can't tell you how the jersey could be photo-matched because in my opinion it can't.

Classic Auction won't issue me a refund because they are saying it can be photo-matched but they can't tell me how or where. Meigray is the one that's going to attempt to re-authenticate the photo-match to prove or disprove the jerseys authenticity.

[commando]

Re: Classic Auctions

I am not even sure what you mean? I can't tell you how the jersey could be photo-matched because in my opinion it can't.

Classic Auction won't issue me a refund because they are saying it can be photo-matched but they can't tell me how or where. Meigray is the one that's going to attempt to re-authenticate the photo-match to prove or disprove the jerseys authenticity.

I agree with you 100% that a style match is not a photo match. If the jersey you purchased shows no wear, and there are no "easy" clues like pinstripes or loose threads to match up, then I'm not sure if a true photo match is possible? I looked at your two photos very closely and could only find two possible areas of interest -- the color of the seams that separate the shoulder colors and the letter "A."

I hope this works out well for everyone. That is a very nice item, to say the least.

(Back to lurking.... over my head)

[kprst6]

Re: Classic Auctions

I agree with you 100% that a style match is not a photo match. If the jersey you purchased shows no wear, and there are no "easy" clues like pinstripes or loose threads to match up, then I'm not sure if a true photo match is possible? I looked at your two photos very closely and could only find two possible areas of interest -- the color of the seams that separate the shoulder colors and the letter "A."

I hope this works out well for everyone. That is a very nice item, to say the least.

(Back to lurking.... over my head)

Yeah, and the black portion of the "A" seems to be shifted to the right on the game photo. There is no ridge on the jersey I have, its just creased in the game photo. The neckline is the closest thing I have found to be an anti-photomatch. The left yellow portion of the neckline near the "V" is 1/4 inch higher than the right portion in the jersey I have. In the game photo, they seem to be pretty close to matching correctly, but then again, it could be the angle of the photo.