Grey Flannel Auction on ebay ......

[Eric]

Re: Grey Flannel Auction on ebay ......

I am a usc collector, and I can tell you that this jersey is PERFECT. I will be bidding on it.

Jerseys12-

You said you'd be bidding on the Reggie Bush jersey which was "perfect in every way" and "the finest one to hit the market"
Did you end up winning it? I didn't bid because you were so excited about it, I didn't want to outbid such a big USC fan who seemed so excited about this item.
Let us know.
Eric

[trsent]

Re: Grey Flannel Auction on ebay ......

BTPH-
Fantastic Homework, to say the least! You have clearly demonstrated that Willie was taking BP in a game jersey, as should be the case. The Mets began using BP's in 1981, 8 years after the BP in question could have been used.

Regardless of your facts, you wil continue to deal with those individuals on this Forum that will defend the major auction houses and large companies to their deaths, even when confronted with information such as yours. These folks have a deep vested interest, as they consign items and feel they can't afford to burn bridges or future sales. Some may call it good business, however, most call it simply spineless and pathetic.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

Howard, you talk, but you are wrong.

I have not had a finical deal with Grey Flannel in over seven years.

Do your homework before opening your mouth because you are wrong once again. You assume, and you assumed WRONG.

I just asked for some proof to bring to them to help make a change.

[TNTtoys]

Re: Grey Flannel Auction on ebay ......

I have just located 2 photos of cards that appear to have Mets in the 82 alt jersey. I have never noticed this particular style. There clearly is a blue stripe between the orange on the collar (and I would assume on the sleeves). The blue on the front of the jersey appears lighter than the usual.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1983-Donruss-301-DAVE-KINGMAN-NEW-YORK-METS_W0QQitemZ290021834195QQihZ019QQcategoryZ60513QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/1983-Brent-Gaff-Donruss-553-Mets_W0QQitemZ170006848939QQihZ007QQcategoryZ60513QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Looks like the error was one of omission of the '83 (the one that M&N reproduced w/ Seaver). The '82 appears to exist and is significantly different.

[TNTtoys]

Re: Grey Flannel Auction on ebay ......

OK, confirmed... Mitchell and Ness's 1983 alternate blue is accurate. It contains gray letters bordered by orange, as well as three stripes on the sleeves - orange/white/orange.

The Ultimate Mets site speaks of a 1982 alternate blue jersey where the letters are orange bordered by gray as well as a different pattern for the sleeves including a blue stripe.

Is it plausible that there was a different alternate jersey (82)? If so, I wonder if we could find photos out there -- possibly a 1983 card would show it?

[LHG39]

Re: Grey Flannel Auction on ebay ......



Here is another picture from a book Seaver co-wrote. Sure looks like the M&N version to me!

[LHG39]

Re: Grey Flannel Auction on ebay ......

Yes, I have seen both versions, they do exist, but they wore worn rarely. Use this link to view the Seaver card http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/mlshults/seaver01.jpg

As he was not with the team in 1982, they MUST have worn the jersey that M&N makes during 1983. I believe this particular card is the basis for the M&N jersey.

Another interesting discrepancy with the paragraph from the Ultimate Mets database below... they state that the alternate blue jersey had ORANGE letters outlined in gray. The Mitchell & Ness version of this jersey, labeled '1983', contains gray letters outlined in orange.

http://www.mitchellandness.com/detail.aspx?ID=1543

Could there in fact be 2 different versions of the alternate blue jersey? An 82 and an 83???

[TNTtoys]

Re: Grey Flannel Auction on ebay ......

Another interesting discrepancy with the paragraph from the Ultimate Mets database below... they state that the alternate blue jersey had ORANGE letters outlined in gray. The Mitchell & Ness version of this jersey, labeled '1983', contains gray letters outlined in orange.

http://www.mitchellandness.com/detail.aspx?ID=1543

Could there in fact be 2 different versions of the alternate blue jersey? An 82 and an 83???

[TNTtoys]

Re: Grey Flannel Auction on ebay ......

You are incorrect. The Mets did wear that style in 1983. See the 2 Topps cards from the 1983 Topps traded sets. The Mets did wear these jerseys in 1983 (Seaver was not with them in 1982) and as you point out the BP jersey had the NY logo so these must be alts.

Then perhaps Mitchell and Ness only got the "NY" BP jersey wrong. This is fact, as I know personally the guy who supplied M&N the sample that they ultimately based their "1984 Strawberry BP jersey" on. He chuckles at the fact that despite all of the information he provided them, they still managed to botch the year.

The source of my 1982 information was the Ultimate Mets database

http://ultimatemets.com/uniforms.html

And I quote...
The Mets also add an alternate road jersey, only used in 1982. This jersey is a royal blue v-neck pullover with "Mets" in script (orange with gray outline) across the front on an upward slant. The jersey has three equal-width stripes (orange-blue-orange) at the collar and sleeve edges. This alternate road jersey has often been mistaken for the batting practice jersey the Mets were using at the time. The main factor that differentiates the two is the trim at the collar and sleeve edges: The batting practice jersey has an orange-white-orange triple stripe around the collar and sleeve edges, while the alternate road jersey has an orange-blue-orange triple stripe around the collar and sleeve edges.

Your photos did not come out above...
One question -- are you 100% certain the 1983 Topps traded cards show photos from the 1983 season? A lot of times, sets contain photos from the previous season.

You are correct that Seaver was not with the team in '82... but this is not exactly relevant. If M&N were to get a year wrong in a jersey, they still will choose to customize that jersey with a playet from that supposed year. Prime example is that "NY" BP jersey. Had they called it an '82, there was no Strawberry that year...

[LHG39]

Re: Grey Flannel Auction on ebay ......

Angelfire does not seem to like hotlinked images, so here is the link to click:

http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/mlshults/seaver01.jpg

[LHG39]

Re: Grey Flannel Auction on ebay ......

This is what I have learned in my research...

The Mets did not use this style as an alternate in 1982, 1983 and 1984. The batting practice jersey was often confused with the alternate blue. The differentiation was that the alternate blue game jersey had a blue stripe, the batting practice had a white stripe. Further, the alternate jersey was used only 1 year - 1982. Mitchell and Ness is selling a "1983 Seaver blue alternate" however, the year on this jersey is wrong. They sometimes get the year wrong...
The BP jersey with the orange-white-orange triple stripe did not originate until circa 1983-1984. In 1982-1983, the Mets wore a BP jersey with "NY" on the left chest. There were 2 versions of this jersey -- one with orange NY and one with silver NY. Again, Mitchell and Ness got it wrong with this jersey. They sell a "1984 Darryl Strawberry NY BP jersey" but by 1984, this jersey was not in production.

You are incorrect. The Mets did wear that style in 1983. See the 2 Topps cards from the 1983 Topps traded sets. The Mets did wear these jerseys in 1983 (Seaver was not with them in 1982) and as you point out the BP jersey had the NY logo so these must be alts.

[TNTtoys]

Re: Grey Flannel Auction on ebay ......

The Mets used this blue knit as an alternate style game jersey in 1982, 1983, and 1984.

This is what I have learned in my research...

The Mets did not use this style as an alternate in 1982, 1983 and 1984. The batting practice jersey was often confused with the alternate blue. The differentiation was that the alternate blue game jersey had a blue stripe, the batting practice had a white stripe. Further, the alternate jersey was used only 1 year - 1982. Mitchell and Ness is selling a "1983 Seaver blue alternate" however, the year on this jersey is wrong. They sometimes get the year wrong...
The BP jersey with the orange-white-orange triple stripe did not originate until circa 1983-1984. In 1982-1983, the Mets wore a BP jersey with "NY" on the left chest. There were 2 versions of this jersey -- one with orange NY and one with silver NY. Again, Mitchell and Ness got it wrong with this jersey. They sell a "1984 Darryl Strawberry NY BP jersey" but by 1984, this jersey was not in production.

[CollectGU]

Re: Grey Flannel Auction on ebay ......

BTPH-

Regardless of your facts, you wil continue to deal with those individuals on this Forum that will defend the major auction houses and large companies to their deaths, even when confronted with information such as yours. These folks have a deep vested interest, as they consign items and feel they can't afford to burn bridges or future sales. Some may call it good business, however, most call it simply spineless and pathetic.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

Howard,

That is hypocritical of you. when I confronted you about the Jeter Mizuno glove that you sold through Mastro, and asked you to provide some type of photo evidence that showed Jeter used a Mizuno glove in Japan, which I am convinced does not exist, you simply said to contact Dave Bushing and Mastro as you were told by them that he did. So, it's OK to question an item BUT not if it's your item which you sold for over $10,000.....

[CollectGU]

Re: Grey Flannel Auction on ebay ......

Howard,

That is hypocritical of you. when I confronted you about the Jeter Mizuno glove that you sold through Mastro, and asked you to provide some type of photo evidence that showed Jeter used a Mizuno glove in Japan, which I am convinced does not exist, you simply said to contact Dave Bushing and Mastro as you were told by them that he did. So, it's OK to question an item BUT not if it's your item which you sold for over $10,000.....

[LHG39]

Re: Grey Flannel Auction on ebay ......

I am glad to see that many seem to agree with me on this one. My take is this, shoudln't GF have to be able to substantiate, to at least some degree, that this jersey is circa 1973? Why is the onus on me to disprive them, when I have limited resources other than my knowledge? How about they get a letter from the Mets? They are a pretty big operation, they should be able to do that if the jersey is legit, no? Currently they have no proff whatsoever and this jersey will likely go for several thousand dollars.

[hblakewolf]

Re: Grey Flannel Auction on ebay ......

BTPH-
Fantastic Homework, to say the least! You have clearly demonstrated that Willie was taking BP in a game jersey, as should be the case. The Mets began using BP's in 1981, 8 years after the BP in question could have been used.

Regardless of your facts, you wil continue to deal with those individuals on this Forum that will defend the major auction houses and large companies to their deaths, even when confronted with information such as yours. These folks have a deep vested interest, as they consign items and feel they can't afford to burn bridges or future sales. Some may call it good business, however, most call it simply spineless and pathetic.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net