Tom Seaver 1969 WS Jersey

[Doodles]

This would certainly be the most valuable Met jersey of them all...is this the real deal? Why would the Mets take the same jersey from the NL playoffs and move the centennial patch and put on a logo patch on the left sleeve? I always assumed they got a new set of jerseys for the World Series, with the logo patch ready to wear into 1970, and slapped a centennial patch on the other sleeve.

http://sports.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7051&lotIdNo=37067#Photo

[gingi79]

Re: Tom Seaver 1969 WS Jersey

The title claims that it is photomatched to both the champagne celebration from the NL Championship and game 4 of the WS. Can anyone chime in on whether they agree or disagree with that claim based on the photos presented on the auction but also the fact we have a half a dozen really tenured Mets collectors on this site?

I'm with Doodles, even as a Braves fan this would be the greatest Mets jersey of them all if it is what it's claimed to be. I'm secretly hoping it is proven real as our hobby is only enriched by having such a gem within it.

[cohibasmoker]

Re: Tom Seaver 1969 WS Jersey

Here are a couple of scans - The 1st scan is before Game 4 and the 2nd scan is a post-game shot. You guys decide.

Jim

[Doodles]

Re: Tom Seaver 1969 WS Jersey

Thanks Cohiba...it is tough to tell...your first scan shows the top right tip of the T right on a pinstripe...the auction item shows a bit of white between T and stripe. Also, the Met sleeve patch looks lower on the sleeve in the scan. Could they have worn two sets during the WS?

Your second scan is of Gil Hodges and seems non-applicable.

[Doodles]

Re: Tom Seaver 1969 WS Jersey

I never thought of this before...why did the Mets WS jerseys have different patches than during the season? I assumed they wanted to have nice jerseys for the WS, so being cheap back then, they pre-ordered 1970 jerseys with the standard Met logo patch on the left sleeve and had to move the MLB patch to the right. Afterwards, they simply removed the MLB patch and had their jerseys for 1970. More likely, I think, is that their home jerseys were ragged and champagne soaked after 2 raucous celebrations...the NL East and the pennant. The roads were ok and were used in the series.

[metsbats]

Re: Tom Seaver 1969 WS Jersey

http://www.seth.com/coll_memorabilia_01_play.html

This jersey belongs to Seth Swirsky. Seth also owned the 86 WS game 6 Mookie ball. He's a very high end collector and used to post on the GUF years ago.

I believe this jersey is the real deal based on the photos.

[flaco1801]

Re: Tom Seaver 1969 WS Jersey

I'm sure that they used (2) home shirts...

[cliffjmp33]

Re: Tom Seaver 1969 WS Jersey

Here's a piece from Sports Collector's Digest with Seth about auctioning his items.

http://www.sportscollectorsdigest.com/featured/seth-swirsky-talks-about-selling-prized-collection

[akrover]

Re: Tom Seaver 1969 WS Jersey

He is the one who owns the disputed Ezra Sutton contract that Hauls of Shame has been writing about, right?

[yanks12025]

Re: Tom Seaver 1969 WS Jersey

He and heritage are also selling Jim leyritz Home run from 1999 world series. Yet legendary auctions was selling a ball attributed to the same home run a month ago. They pulled the item because of their being two balls, while heritage is still selling theirs. Seth and heritage only said that the other is fake. Legendarys came from leyritz himself, while Seth's came from Jim's ex-wife.

[metsbats]

Re: Tom Seaver 1969 WS Jersey

A good collector friend Joel Weingarten, who specializes in 1969 WS bats and Mets flannels contacted me with some interesting observations regarding the 69 WS Tom Seaver jersey in Heritage auctions.

I've taken these observations and created a pictorial to compare and contrast.

Observations

1. The celebration photo in the auction description cannot not definitively match the auction jersey as Seaver is wearing a jacket which covers most of the jersey (particularily the "M" as we will see later will be important)

2. The 2nd photo in the auction certainly is a close photo match of the auction jersey however the photo was taken pre-WS due to the locations of the MLB centennial patch and Mets Skyline patch.

3. Comparing the getty image of Seaver from the 69 WS in this thread to the Heritage jersey it is now clearly apparent that the pinstripes around the "M" do NOT match the auction jersey. Joel used this same photo to point this out too.

4. There is a 69 Seaver game worn jersey that was in the Mets HOF which more closely photo matches the getty image photos from the 69 WS. The Mets Skyline patch is correctly located on the left sleeve (indicating WS) however it looks like the MLB centennial patch was removed. Seaver signed it and inscribed 69 game jersey.

Possible scenarios

- Heritage jersey is certainly a 69 game used Seaver jersey and the auction photo is a very close photo match to photo 2 based on the pinstripes. However the location of the patches would make it a regular season jersey at that point in time and quite possibly used in the NL East clincher.

- The Mets Museum jersey is more closely photo matched to the 69 WS photo and could possibly be the jersey worn in the 69 WS. Perhaps the MLB centennial patch was removed after.

- The patches on the Heritage jersey was switched by the team and used as a backup jersey during the WS.

- The patches on the Heritage jersey was not switched by the team and was done to turn a regular season jersey look like a WS jersey. (worst case)

I've contacted Heritage auctions regarding this and sent them the photographic evidence (Joel has also reached out to them). They stated they were able to photomatch this jersey to the NL East clincher and the WS game 4 action and I've asked them to provide the additional evidence.

What are your thoughts? Can anyone help find more photos to match the jersey to the 69 WS?

[Doodles]

Re: Tom Seaver 1969 WS Jersey

Great analysis...here is my theory:

After 2 raucous champagne celebrations, the Mets 1969 jerseys, with MLB patch on left sleeve and no logo patch, were in terrible shape. The Mets, wanting to look good in the WS, got a shipment of new jerseys. Being very cheap back then, and not having the foresight to know how valuable they would be, the Mets figured they would just keep using those WS jerseys into 1970. So they ordered them with the logo patch where they would usually be and moved the MLB patch to the right sleeve. Then in 1970, they simply removed the MLB patch and had their 1970 jersey.

The jersey in the museum looks exactly like the WS pictures...here is a picture after the series was clinched in game 5...going by the top tip of the T which touches the pinstripe, the jersey matches the museum jersey. The Heritage Jersey T does not touch the pinstripe.

[Doodles]

Re: Tom Seaver 1969 WS Jersey

Clearly, the Heritage jersey was not Seaver's jersey from WS Games 4 or 5...that was the museum jersey, as further analysis proves below. Was game 3 the Heritage jersey?

[metsbats]

Re: Tom Seaver 1969 WS Jersey

Clearly, the Heritage jersey was not Seaver's jersey from WS Games 4 or 5...that was the museum jersey, as further analysis proves below. Was game 3 the Heritage jersey?

Yet another pinstripe inconsistency.

If we can find photos of Seaver from Game 3 that would be the only way to confirm.

[metsbats]

Re: Tom Seaver 1969 WS Jersey

Seaver only started game 4 at Shea. It'll be extremely difficult to find Game 3 or Game 5 photos of him not wearing his jacket I would think.