Odd Ali Gloves Authenticated by JSA but fail PSA/DNA?

[trsent]

I saw this pair of allegedly autographed Muhammad Ali autographed gloves on eBay and I couldn't believe James Spense Authentication wrote letters for them. So I paid the $7.49 and asked PSA/DNA for a Quick Opinion.

Here is the eBay listing:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/120939571899

I am not perfect, but the shaky signatures on these gloves have all the characteristics of signatures of forgers. I saw JSA wrote letters on them, and JSA is considered the 2nd best 3rd party authenticators in the industry.

So, I submit the listing to PSA/DNA's Quick Opinion service and here is their reply:

Dear Joel Alpert,

Your Request for Item "Muhammad Ali Signed Set of Everlast Boxing Gloves w/ JSA COA LOA 's AUTO ", eBay Lot No. "120939571899", opinion was rendered at "7/13/2012 10:13:52 AM" and the result was:

Response: "Likely Not Genuine"

Here are the details of your Request:

Comments:
Request ID: 87699
Request By: 07/14/2012

Thank you choosing the QuickOpinion service!

Makes you wonder.

[Preston]

Re: Odd Ali Gloves Authenticated by JSA but fail PSA/DNA?

http://sigartsinc.blogspot.com/2010/02/jsa-james-spence-autograph-industry.html

James Spence is a shady character...I wouldn't trust him to effectively change a light bulb if I handed the new bulb to him and he was directly under the light socket and the bulb had already been removed.

PSA/DNA and GAI are MUCH more reputable, IMO.

[trsent]

Re: Odd Ali Gloves Authenticated by JSA but fail PSA/DNA?

http://sigartsinc.blogspot.com/2010/...-industry.html

James Spence is a shady character...I wouldn't trust him to effectively change a light bulb if I handed the new bulb to him and he was directly under the light socket and the bulb had already been removed.

PSA/DNA and GAI are MUCH more reputable, IMO.

If Global is still eBay pre-certified as an authenticator by the end of the year I'll eat crow, whatever that means.

[Skizzick]

Re: Odd Ali Gloves Authenticated by JSA but fail PSA/DNA?

GAI is a hell of a lot more Shady than JSA. When I see GAI on an item I assume it is fake because anybody that knows the autograph industry knows they'll certify two squiggly lines on paper as Joe DiMaggio.

[maverick14]

Re: Odd Ali Gloves Authenticated by JSA but fail PSA/DNA?

GAI is a hell of a lot more Shady than JSA. When I see GAI on an item I assume it is fake because anybody that knows the autograph industry knows they'll certify two squiggly lines on paper as Joe DiMaggio.

+1

[trsent]

Re: Odd Ali Gloves Authenticated by JSA but fail PSA/DNA?

GAI is a hell of a lot more Shady than JSA. When I see GAI on an item I assume it is fake because anybody that knows the autograph industry knows they'll certify two squiggly lines on paper as Joe DiMaggio.

Funny timing, I just listed on eBay a Joe DiMaggio 8x10 that was certified by both GAI and PSA/DNA. I wouldn't trust a GAI COA unless it has something much more reliable.

Need more proof? Look at closed prices for items with PSA/DNA and then look at the same items with Global authentication. A simple search on eBay will help show the public generally doesn't trust Global one bit.

Now, the public needs some education on James Spence Authentication. The Ali example above is just one of many.

James Spence Authentication now has all their authenticators sitting right out in the open at hobby trade shows. I hope someone brings up the Ali gloves in this thread to them at a future event. I'd like to hear them talk their way out of these Ali gloves that are basically worthless but their letters make bidders see a bargain.

Sure, it is an opinion. I could look at questionable autographs and write a letter stating I feel they are genuine. I prefer my experts are really experts and not pretending to be such.

[earlywynnfan]

Re: Odd Ali Gloves Authenticated by JSA but fail PSA/DNA?

Joel, do you have any idea who does the quick opinions for PSA via ebay? I can't imagine Steve Grad is sitting at the computer looking at these.

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

[trsent]

Re: Odd Ali Gloves Authenticated by JSA but fail PSA/DNA?

Joel, do you have any idea who does the quick opinions for PSA via ebay? I can't imagine Steve Grad is sitting at the computer looking at these.

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

I don't know for sure, but I'd be pretty sure the authenticators log in and look at them when they have free time.

[yanks12025]

Re: Odd Ali Gloves Authenticated by JSA but fail PSA/DNA?

PSA has also authenticated a large amount of fakes, laser copies, etc.

[trsent]

Re: Odd Ali Gloves Authenticated by JSA but fail PSA/DNA?

PSA has also authenticated a large amount of fakes, laser copies, etc.

That is all you have to add? I could make a blanket statement without backing it up and it would mean nothing also.

Generally, after years of working with 3rd party autograph authenticators I can tell you that everyone is human when giving an opinion, but there are some that are the best and PSA/DNA is on the top of that list at this moment in time because their errors are minimal.

Just look at eBay's completed prices for autographed memorabilia with PSA/DNA, JSA and Global certificates. You'll see the premium goes to PSA/DNA because they are the best and no one can argue such.

Now, take JSA who authenticated a pair of questionable Muhammad Ali boxing gloves. How can they not know Muhammad Ali's autograph if they are experts?

I see hear stupid comments like the one quoted above from people all the time who I always have found didn't like that their "genuine" autograph failed PSA/DNA so now they hate the company. What is also funny is those are the same people who whine about their autographs not passing so they bash the authenticator time and time again even though their autograph is not genuine and failed for a reason.

[yanks12025]

Re: Odd Ali Gloves Authenticated by JSA but fail PSA/DNA?

That is all you have to add? I could make a blanket statement without backing it up and it would mean nothing also.

Generally, after years of working with 3rd party autograph authenticators I can tell you that everyone is human when giving an opinion, but there are some that are the best and PSA/DNA is on the top of that list at this moment in time because their errors are minimal.

Just look at eBay's completed prices for autographed memorabilia with PSA/DNA, JSA and Global certificates. You'll see the premium goes to PSA/DNA because they are the best and no one can argue such.

Now, take JSA who authenticated a pair of questionable Muhammad Ali boxing gloves. How can they not know Muhammad Ali's autograph if they are experts?

I see hear stupid comments like the one quoted above from people all the time who I always have found didn't like that their "genuine" autograph failed PSA/DNA so now they hate the company. What is also funny is those are the same people who whine about their autographs not passing so they bash the authenticator time and time again even though their autograph is not genuine and failed for a reason.

haha. You couldn't be more wrong like usual. Guess my comment ain't stupid because I've never sent anything to PSA and if I ever doI'd know the item is real before I bought it. So you're wrong saying I'm whining because of a item not passing and there's plently of proof to back my statement.

JSA is human also. PSA is the best, yet they can't tell that a Ty Cobb signed index card was a laser copy of the original. Yet both JSA and PSA have authenticated several fake Mathewson, Ruth, etc signed balls.

The links i provided are only two of mainly mess ups that PSA has made.

http://haulsofshame.com/blog/?p=12816

http://haulsofshame.com/blog/?p=12266

[yanks12025]

Re: Odd Ali Gloves Authenticated by JSA but fail PSA/DNA?

Also wanted to add, i'm not a fan of either JSA nor PSA. I'm just posting these links to show that both don't know what their doing and make mistakes. Both JSA and PSA have cost collectors tons of money but they have also saved some collectors money. But either way, you should do your own research and know what you're buying.

[trsent]

Re: Odd Ali Gloves Authenticated by JSA but fail PSA/DNA?

Yanks, I'll stand behind a company that has a proven track record. Millions of proper certifications and a couple of errors have popped up over time. If they make an error they have a history of making it right for the best of the hobby.

Web sites like the one you posted never praise all the proper authentications - They have field days with the micro-percentage of errors over time.

I didn't say you had anything rejected by PSA/DNA to plead your case - I just have found that is the case often by those looking to slam their amazing work in the autograph authentication business.

I'm proud to support PSA/DNA after my 25 plus years in the memorabilia business. No one has such a successful record in this industry before and I doubt anyone will ever pass them for accuracy.

[Preston]

Re: Odd Ali Gloves Authenticated by JSA but fail PSA/DNA?

Truth be told I have just one autographed item that has a GAI cert - it's a Len Dawson autograph and matches 100% perfectly with every legit auto of Dawson's. But Spence is the one I really worry about. PSA/DNA is great. Of course like anything else, do your homework.