Mickey Mantle Used Bat

[ChrisCavalier]

Re: Mickey Mantle Used Bat

Chris- MEARS is also in the process of issuing a new cert removing mention of the bat being in Mantles bat order records in the comment section. It will still state "yes" under "matches factory records."

Hello Steve,

You have stated in a previous post that "Ultimately, the responsibility lies with us as an auction house to provide quality and authentic merchandise and we are 100% committed to doing so." If that is true, I have some questions for you. You have acknowledged in your quote above that there is no record of this bat in Mantle's documented shipping records. In addition, K55 bats are very well known (and documented) to be a pro stock model for Mantle meaning they could have been ordered by the Yankees, other players, other teams, promotional replicas, etc. Given these facts, how can you possibly sell this bat representing it as "matching factory records" for Mantle with a 7 grade?

I have spoken to numerous knowledgeable bat collectors and every single one believes "matching factory records" means a specific order can be found on the player's shipping record card during the specific labeling period which matches the model, length, weight, and finish of the subject bat. Are you now offering bats in your auction that represent a new definition for "matching factory records"? According to your auction description (along with the claim that this bat "matches factory records"), any 35 inch, 33 ounce Mantle bat in existence can be said to "match factory records" regardless of whether there is a specific order for the specific model during a specified labeling period or not, including pro stock models. This would certainly be news to the bat collectors I have spoken to and I think we would all be interested in knowing how, and when, such a change took place.

Thanks in advance for your reply.

Sincerely,
Chris

[Eric]

Re: Mickey Mantle Used Bat

Chris-

Good question. Also a good question for the folks at mears. What is the definition of "Matches Factory Records?"

I'll post it.

Eric

[Eric]

Re: Mickey Mantle Used Bat

I posted this yesterday and am waiting for the response...

Definition of "Matches Factory Records?"

November 15 2006 at 12:09 PM Eric Stangel Eric Stangel (Login EricStangel)Hello-

Maybe this has been addressed, if so I apologize for the repeat but...

Could you give your definition of "Matches Factory Records?"

Does it have to do with a single bat order, or a general look at a player's orders over his career, or even the perspective of what other players order during an era.

Thanks
Eric Stangel

[JimCaravello]

Re: Mickey Mantle Used Bat

Eric - Steve Jensen mentioned on one of his posts that they would be contacting the high bidder with the changes. The bat is still at $1,000 in the auction.

So I guess the high bidder doesn't care that this bat does not match factory records? This bat and thread are very interesting to me.

• A COA is proven to be wrong as the bat does not match factory records ( whether it was intentional or just a mistake doesn't really matter as that is irrelevant ) -
• the auction house changes the description to state that the bat matches known examples of bats ( even though this K55 bat could have been ordered by anyone ) -
• the grading company sticks to the A7 grade -
• and the auction company and authenticator sleep at night knowing all these facts??........
• AND - I still feel the wood quality of the bat looks "promotional" or "store model quality" to me........

I am at a loss for words - I have seen everything now......This means that Factory Records are irrelevant to the authenticator and auction company - fascinating as Mr. Spock would say........

It will be interesting to see if they respond.....Jim

[JimCaravello]

Re: Mickey Mantle Used Bat

Eric - here is something else I find quite comical. See Jensen's comments from an earlier post below:

"MEARS has assured us that based on their grading standard, this bat remains an A7 due to the fact that the 35 inch, 33 ounce bat was the bat he predominantly used post career."

Now go back up and look at Jeff Bird's post above with his posting of Mantle's Ledger Card.

There are 8 entries from 1969 to 1974 and NOT ONE OF THEM is for a 35" 33 ounce order. Also - in reviewing the online Mantle Charts on GUU - here are all of his 1969 orders:

24 - M110 Bats - 35" & 32 ounces
12 - P104 Bats - 35" & 32 ounces
12 - Mc113 - 34" & 33 ounces

There is not one Mantle order for 35", 33 ounce bats in the records from 1969 - 1979..........I don't have the post 1980 records with me - but that's irrelevant, as the bat is from the 73-75 labeling period........

Just an observation............Jim

[Eric]

Re: Mickey Mantle Used Bat

I posted this yesterday and am waiting for the response...

Definition of "Matches Factory Records?"

November 15 2006 at 12:09 PM Eric Stangel Eric Stangel (Login EricStangel)Hello-

Maybe this has been addressed, if so I apologize for the repeat but...

Could you give your definition of "Matches Factory Records?"

Does it have to do with a single bat order, or a general look at a player's orders over his career, or even the perspective of what other players order during an era.

Thanks
Eric Stangel

A response has been posted on mearsonline.com

Interested in people's thoughts

[Birdbats]

Re: Mickey Mantle Used Bat

Eric,

After reading Troy's response, it sounds like the whole "photo match" vs. "style match" debate again.

"Records" typically is a reference to H&B shipping records. Most that are available to collectors are older and limited to star players. It's difficult to find records for older non-stars and any current player. Though it's possible, I'm not aware of anyone having actual factory shipping records from other manufacturers.

In many cases, the best most of us can do is make a "style match" -- or maybe "spec match" is more appropriate for bats. That is, we can determine a bat is consistent with a player's length, weight, etc. For example, if you know from H&B records that a player used 35"/32 oz. ash S2 H&B bats, and you come across an Adirondack bat with the player's name and the same specs, that could be a spec match (since we don't have Rawlings records with which to compare). The concept of a "spec match" would be even more relevant with current bats, given the number of manufacturers today and the lack of H&B records.

To me, the term "matches factory records" should be limited to those cases where the bat in question is made by H&B and it's specs can be matched with specific orders in the player's records (assuming production variances of maybe 1/4" for lengths and 1/2 ounce on weights).

Using this as a guideline, no non-H&B bat could be classified as "matching factory records" (unless someone is successful in getting the appropriate manufacturer records).

Also, if a player often ordered K55 H&B bats, and often ordered bats that were 35" and 32 oz. -- but never ordered K55 bats that were 35/32 -- then a K55 35/32 would not "match factory records." At best, it would be a "spec match."

In a letter of opinion, I think the question of "matches factory records" should simply be answered either "yes" or "no." If it can't, maybe there needs to be another section that says, "matches known specifications" with room for explanation.

Just my two cents.