EBay fraud committed by murphys2002 and pkrbkr52

[ivo610]

I sold some autographed proline helmets on ebay a month or so ago and one was bought by "pkrbkr52" a user named "Michael Murphy" from Minocqua WI. He was unhappy with the purchase because the PSA DNA card wasnt included. While I never said it was or had it in any pictures I offered to let him return the helmet if he paid for it to be shipped back to me. He flipped out and said no and left me nasty feedback. Today I notice on ebay that the same helmet is now a "game issued" Brian Dawkins helmet. The facemask has changed along with some other alterations, but the COA number is the same. Only this time its under a different user "Murphys2002" This helmet is not "game issued" and has been faked by the seller.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261291089828

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brian-Dawkins-Game-Issued-Signed-Broncos-TB-Throwback-Pro-Football-Helmet-NFLPSA/181244660647?_trksid=p2045573.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D27%26meid%3D2351831233802240157%26pid%3D100033%26prg%3D1011%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D121204743873%26

[NEFAN]

Re: EBay fraud committed by murphys2002 and pkrbkr52

Report him to eBay

[mbrieve]

Re: EBay fraud committed by murphys2002 and pkrbkr52

You clearly had a bad experience with this eBay member. I agree this should be reported to eBay. However, have you contacted the seller and called him out on it? The wording in the title clearly states game issued, but the description says something to the effect of game issued style. I agree it is deceiving, but the nomenclature in the hobby is sometimes vague. He obviously made some modifications (number change, facemask and shield) to make it look more like a Dawkins lid.

[helmets]

Re: EBay fraud committed by murphys2002 and pkrbkr52

Yes, I don't agree with the negative feedback.

However, I am having trouble with what this ebay user did that was wrong. "Game Issued" has always been used on ebay to describe a helmet that has been modified or altered with customizations. Currently there are many helmets on ebay with the term "Game Issued" to describe it. When you look at the helmet, most times it has at least a mask that is the style that the player wore. There is even an old helmet lamp (Colts) helmet on there now using that term to describe it. I agree that the term has different meanings to different people. For years, I would purchase Proline helmets direct from Riddell, customize them like this seller did, and sell them on ebay and other sites. Occasionally I would purchase helmets from other dealers that were autographed, or I would get Proline helmets autographed - and customize them later. Although I did not describe them as "Game Issued", basically I was doing the same as this re-seller. Not sure other than the term used how he/she is guilty of fraud.

[earlywynnfan]

Re: EBay fraud committed by murphys2002 and pkrbkr52

Personally, I feel if you advertise something as "with NFL PSA/DNA certification," I'd expect the certification to come with it. (Not that I'd "wig out and leave you a negative.") So I find it funny that he had such a big issue with the lack of cert, but he doesn't say anything about it missing, either!

[R_Aaronson]

Re: EBay fraud committed by murphys2002 and pkrbkr52

I don't know what game issued "style" is supposed to mean, but the seller gives the impression by the photo in his listing that it would have been worn (had it not been issued) when the Broncos played @ SD on Monday 10/19/09.

Yet when I looked up the authentication number on PSA's website it shows it being authenticated 6/16/09. Signed before the game where he would have worn it?

Not to mention the helmet is a Riddell when Dawkins wore a Schutt. It looks like he removed the rear bumper to make it look more authentic.

Shady practices that need to be reported to eBay (if not already done so)

-Randy

[earlywynnfan]

Re: EBay fraud committed by murphys2002 and pkrbkr52

Yes, I don't agree with the negative feedback.

However, I am having trouble with what this ebay user did that was wrong. "Game Issued" has always been used on ebay to describe a helmet that has been modified or altered with customizations. Currently there are many helmets on ebay with the term "Game Issued" to describe it. When you look at the helmet, most times it has at least a mask that is the style that the player wore. There is even an old helmet lamp (Colts) helmet on there now using that term to describe it. I agree that the term has different meanings to different people. For years, I would purchase Proline helmets direct from Riddell, customize them like this seller did, and sell them on ebay and other sites. Occasionally I would purchase helmets from other dealers that were autographed, or I would get Proline helmets autographed - and customize them later. Although I did not describe them as "Game Issued", basically I was doing the same as this re-seller. Not sure other than the term used how he/she is guilty of fraud.

I'm not a helmet guy, I'm a bat guy, but I'd think the terminology should be the same. I, and the people I regularly deal with, view "game issued" as given to the player, or at least the team, and ready for use. Even if it wasn't in the player's hands, they could at least get their hands on it. This helmet didn't come any closer to Dawkins or the locker room than my left foot did. Call it "Pro style" or "Game style," but not game issued.

Ken

[trsent]

Re: EBay fraud committed by murphys2002 and pkrbkr52

Personally, I feel if you advertise something as "with NFL PSA/DNA certification," I'd expect the certification to come with it. (Not that I'd "wig out and leave you a negative.") So I find it funny that he had such a big issue with the lack of cert, but he doesn't say anything about it missing, either!

Ken, 100% correct - If you are selling an item with a hologram or sticker from an authentication company that generally also supplies matching certificate of authenticities you should mention if the paper certificate is missing. Why ask for trouble if you don't have it?

Too many people are lazy with their description and it only leads to issues down the road.

[beachpetrol]

Re: EBay fraud committed by murphys2002 and pkrbkr52

With regards to the certification for the OP's helmet, I would think the PSA/DNA sticker would be the certification the OP is referring to in his auction, because on the PSA/DNA sticker is the "certification" number. Yes, he should have mentioned in the auction that he did not have the "certificate", but he did have "certification" in the form of the PSA/DNA sticker.

I contacted murphys2002 about his helmet not being game issued, especially since the "zeros" don't match up in his game photo in his auction and his response was "I'm sorry you feel that way". LOL. Some of his other items are suspect as well.

[Takuleechch]

Re: EBay fraud committed by murphys2002 and pkrbkr52

Here's what he said to me

[trsent]

Re: EBay fraud committed by murphys2002 and pkrbkr52

With regards to the certification for the OP's helmet, I would think the PSA/DNA sticker would be the certification the OP is referring to in his auction, because on the PSA/DNA sticker is the "certification" number. Yes, he should have mentioned in the auction that he did not have the "certificate", but he did have "certification" in the form of the PSA/DNA sticker.

I contacted murphys2002 about his helmet not being game issued, especially since the "zeros" don't match up in his game photo in his auction and his response was "I'm sorry you feel that way". LOL. Some of his other items are suspect as well.

That's fine, but I buy a lot of autographed memorabilia and if it is certified by PSA/DNA and it doesn't come with the paperwork I have to spend my time and money to get that paperwork back. Any seller selling an item with a sticker or hologram that comes with paperwork should clearly mention in their description if the paperwork isn't included. That's common business sense and a courtesy to buyers.

[abstractheory]

Re: EBay fraud committed by murphys2002 and pkrbkr52

I'm not a helmet guy, I'm a bat guy, but I'd think the terminology should be the same. I, and the people I regularly deal with, view "game issued" as given to the player, or at least the team, and ready for use. Even if it wasn't in the player's hands, they could at least get their hands on it. This helmet didn't come any closer to Dawkins or the locker room than my left foot did. Call it "Pro style" or "Game style," but not game issued.

Ken

Agree.

It's misleading and he knows it by his reply to the Ebay question asked in this thread. He knows darn well what "Game Issue" implies. That's why it's in his title. Of course it's gonna attract more attention than the word "Custom".

[RMoody]

Re: EBay fraud committed by murphys2002 and pkrbkr52

For what's it worth, the guy does good work if he would just be more upfront.

Went back and forth with him on the LT helmet he has. The inscriptions go into the where the visor is.

So LT signed a helmet he had issued (playing to wear it with all his stats wrote on), took the visor off to inscribe it but then put it back on, or magically signed through the visor.

None of that really rung true with me, and after contact he gave me a generic response he gave here.

It's troubling, but more that he isn't being clear in his listings. I just don't like thinking some guy has "connections" to get facemasks and feels that he is able to modify helmets with the right parts to "game issue".

Reminded me alot of dealing with classic cars, wonder if this guy would try saying the engine numbers don't match but its still "Mopar Issued".

[Roady]

Re: EBay fraud committed by murphys2002 and pkrbkr52

I'm not a helmet guy, I'm a bat guy, but I'd think the terminology should be the same. I, and the people I regularly deal with, view "game issued" as given to the player, or at least the team, and ready for use. Even if it wasn't in the player's hands, they could at least get their hands on it. This helmet didn't come any closer to Dawkins or the locker room than my left foot did. Call it "Pro style" or "Game style," but not game issued.

Ken

I 100% agree with this.
I never would expect anyone to say something they made or pieced together was "game issued".

[ousooner_85]

Re: EBay fraud committed by murphys2002 and pkrbkr52

That's fine, but I buy a lot of autographed memorabilia and if it is certified by PSA/DNA and it doesn't come with the paperwork I have to spend my time and money to get that paperwork back. Any seller selling an item with a sticker or hologram that comes with paperwork should clearly mention in their description if the paperwork isn't included. That's common business sense and a courtesy to buyers.

The point of the original poster was that the helmet turned into a
"game issued" piece and received numerous cosmetic changes. The fact the PSA certification was missing seems irrelavant to the big issue of what looks to be FRAUD!