Winfield bat on EBay

[TwinLakesPark]

Re: Winfield bat on EBay

Nothing I stated was factually false, my personal opinion was wrong about the bat but the facts were correct. The buyer needs to take responsibility for their personal assessment of the item at some point.

Well said.

[Roady]

Re: Winfield bat on EBay

Maybe I missed it or maybe it was never posted but how much did Bill buy the bat for from Nick.
I understand it's none of my business. Just curious.

[Nnunnari]

Re: Winfield bat on EBay

Regarding my initial post in this thread, I was going off of a vague, five year memory in thinking the bat was slightly shorter than a typical Winfield gamer. In finding my old email to Bill, I see that it wasn't actually shorter, the bat just wasn't found in his shipping records.

I honestly thought it was a legit Winfield gamer which wasn't in his records, that was my mistake and I am frankly embarrassed by that mistake . Any buyer who knows that this bat was not in his shipping records, is free to draw their own conclusion based upon the use of the bat and player characteristics and judge whether or not they believe the bat was used by the player. If Bill had come back to me a week later after receiving the bat and said "Nick, I'm not confident that this bat was used by DW, please refund my money." Sure, no problem Bill.

Where do you draw the line? It's been 5 years. If I refund the money now, am I leaving myself open to anyone I've sold to in the past coming to me and saying they don't like the bat I sold them?
Nothing I stated was factually false, my personal opinion was wrong about the bat but the facts were correct. The buyer needs to take responsibility for their personal assessment of the item at some point.
Taube made all sorts of mistakes back in this era along with other "experts". If I stated that the length, weight, model of the bat were different then they actually were or that the bat did match shipping records, then absolutely I would refund the money but not when it was an error in the assessment of the use. Unless someone saw this bat in action, there is no concrete, right or wrong answer on whether or not DW used this bat, only opinions.
I have seen countless bats pass 3rd party authentication which I can guarantee were not used by that player, but the bats specs checked out. Then what happens? At the end of the day, it is someone's opinion against another person's opinion. The buyer needs to make their own judgement through research and homework.
I am a big fan of this hobby. Plenty of people know me and what I stand for and how fair I have always been. I know the feeling, it sucks. I'm sorry it happened but I just can't justify this one, not after five years and all that took place at the time of the transaction. Feel free to judge me if you wish.

[GoTigers]

Re: Winfield bat on EBay

Not a problem.. If you've seen my eBay listings, I usually say "if this item fails any reputable 3rd party auth. I'll buy it back". On items I offer that on, there is no time limit. Although I'll probably change that now.. I'll probably give the buyer a year to send it in and return it if it fails. Simply because if I sell a high end bat, and who knows.. I'm broke 5 years from now I won't be able to account for it. It's not lack of confidence, it's an unnecessary risk to have a lifetime guarantee, and 1 year is ample time to have an item inspected.

Items I don't offer that guarantee on.. I would explain the issues with the item, and all sales are final. I would not offer a guarantee on this bat, because I know it would fail based on not matching records.. That doesn't necessarily mean its bad though. In these cases the final decision lies with the buyer.

[emann]

Re: Winfield bat on EBay

Agreed rep is everything..but I don't think he's morally obligated to buy it back

My two cents:

I'd agree overall that the timeline is too long to refund money to a buyer in a "normal situation." I'd say 60 days is reasonable (and probably pushing it)...

But, this isn't a "normal situation" and if his rep in this hobby concerns the seller that issue has now been amplified to some extent because the forum members now know about it—he should offer to refund half the original payment to Worldchamps.

Share part of the hit for moving a fake bat along... We can't be talking any significant amount of money either way. $100 and an olive branch is probably worth it for your rep here, no?

BTW: this forum doesn't need "moderators" it needs "mediators."

[earlywynnfan]

Re: Winfield bat on EBay

There is always doubt unless its photomatched.. We should all know that by now.. No matter who you buy from, or what name is on the LOA. Phi313, nick stood by his word and offered a refund which the buyer declined early on. I don't know how you can say he ripped someone off.. Clearly he never had that intention.

Just curious, and I am NOT asking this as some sort of attack: Supposed we do a deal, I buy something from you. How long do you stand behind it? Your posts seem to show that you feel 5 years is too long to ask a refund. (And please, I'm not arguing with you!) How long is too long? And again, I'm not saying I changed my mind, I'm saying new evidence has come to light PROVING what you sold me was bad. A month? A year? At what point does the inner conscience fade away?

Ken

[earlywynnfan]

Re: Winfield bat on EBay

I definitely don't feel it's black or white. I do disagree with those saying "Well, he offered a refund and was turned down." To me, this isn't applicable. The buyer was offered a refund along with the seller's claim that the bat was 100% legit. Now that it's come to light that the bat is 100% NOT legit, the offer of a refund is nowhere to be found. So to me, the refund offer is not part of the equation. Or, perhaps I can word it better like this: when the refund was on the table, and the buyer had all the facts we have now, would he have taken the refund? The buyer turned down the refund based on the facts he was given/knew at the time, which is the bat didn't meet factory records. If the buyer came on here now wanting a refund because of that, I'd say go blow.

I'm not trying to hammer the seller here, nor do I have ANY belief that he ever intended to defraud, just like this is very obviously not a case of buyer's remorse; those words shouldn't be part of this discussion. What I was asking is: does the forum think that the seller should stand behind the item for forever (or at least 5 years) or should he just wash his hands of it?

[Phil316]

Re: Winfield bat on EBay

Nick says it was shorter than a DW gamer but when messaging Bill said it was the same length and weight as DW uses. To me that says something.

[Jags Fan Dan]

Re: Winfield bat on EBay

To say Nick ripped somebody off implies he knew the bat was bad when he sold it, which doesn't seem to be the case. That is big to me in evaluating this. It's a bad situation, for sure. I'm just not as sure that the solution is as black and white as we would like.

[GoTigers]

Re: Winfield bat on EBay

There is always doubt unless its photomatched.. We should all know that by now.. No matter who you buy from, or what name is on the LOA. Phi313, nick stood by his word and offered a refund which the buyer declined early on. I don't know how you can say he ripped someone off.. Clearly he never had that intention.

[Phil316]

Re: Winfield bat on EBay

The only issue I have is according to Bill, Nick made it quite clear it was game used. He even stated it was the same length and weight to Bill. He told Bill he has "no doubt" it was used by Winfield. Nick was so convinced it was used by DW that he should stand by his item. Personally after reading this I now know where Nick stands morally when it comes to ripping off potential buyers and not standing by his product or word.

Bill,
I am not sure why this bat is not in records, my thinking is that the bat was ordered early in the1990 season, possibly spring training and the bat
might not have made the record book. It is the same
egth and weight as other Winfield gamers of this era along with the gwynn finish which he commonly ordered at that time. The bat also displays strong
Winfield characteristics with the heavy pine tar onthe lower handle, ball marks on the left side of the barrel and the worn in #31 on the knob. I purchased this bat from a bat boy who claimedthe bat was given directly to him from Winfield in the early '90s. Let me know if you still want me to ship out thebat today, I can tell you it's a great looking bat that I have no doubt was used by Winfield.

Nick

[Jags Fan Dan]

Re: Winfield bat on EBay

Five years ago I traded my car in on a new one. The dealer gave me exactly what I asked for on it. A few days later he called me to ask me if a potential buyer could contact me to ask me a few questions about my experience owning the car, I said fine. He then said "We already fixed the power steering pump." I said "What do you mean?" He explained that they found it was leaking and had to have it replaced. I informed him honestly that I had no idea it was leaking or that anything on the car was not functioning correctly when I traded it in. He never asked me to do anything about it. I never told them not to inspect anything, as far as I knew the car was great. Should I have offered up money to cover the repair? I think it is more "buyer beware" to me. I would feel bad if I had knowingly mislead somebody. The fact that the pump was bad could have been discovered if they had looked the car over prior to accepting it. I feel this vaguely applies to this situation.

[GoTigers]

Re: Winfield bat on EBay

Agreed rep is everything..but I don't think he's morally obligated to buy it back, that's to say if he did offer a refund it would be going above and beyond the norm.

If he didnt offer a refund years down the line after new info was available, i wouldnt think hes a bad or dishonest seller, as he was clear with all available info.

I think as it stands its just a bad situation.

[Hoosier39]

Re: Winfield bat on EBay

Hoosier, I understand, but I think asking for money back after 5 years isn't going to get very far with anyone.. I meant more along the lines of legal recourse with Mike and trying to clean up the hobby. At least something good would come from a bad situation. I hate it for you worldchamps.. Most of us have been there.

I think its more of the moral aspect behind it. 5 yrs or 15 yrs, at the end of the day, the bat is still bad. Not really his fault he found this out 2 days ago.

If I sold a bat or jersey, knowing whether it was bad or not, and the buyer came back(5 yrs or 15 yrs) and said that its no good, what do you think I should do? Tell him, sorry, and tell him to leave me alone? I'd feel bad about it.

Remember, reputation is everything.

[GoTigers]

Re: Winfield bat on EBay

Hoosier, I understand, but I think asking for money back after 5 years isn't going to get very far with anyone.. I meant more along the lines of legal recourse with Mike and trying to clean up the hobby. At least something good would come from a bad situation. I hate it for you worldchamps.. Most of us have been there.