Auction House May Consign And Bid On Their Own Items

[sammy]

In viewing a recent R&R Auction catalog, I came across what I believe to be total BS. I quote directly from the page which lists the rules for consignors.

It is important that every potential bidder reads this paragraph!
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Consignors: Consignors are not allowed to bid on or withdraw their own lots.

R&R may consign items to be sold in auction, and may bid on those lots or any other lots.

Where non-published reserves exist, R&R may make bids in response to others.

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The above statement is printed under the section for Consignors and not in a place where bidders would normally read.

Basically, you as a consignor cannot bid on your own material, but R&R can bid on the items they own and place in the auction, or any other items they choose to.

Also, every item R&R chooses to bid or keep bidding on, a 19.5% buyer’s premium is added to the final price of the unlucky winner.

R&R advertises that it will be in many US cities on buying trips, therefore a good percentage of material in each auction is likely owned by R&R.

Why if they own and bid on their own items, or raise the bids on other items, do they still add the 19.5% buyers premium?

This is extremely troublesome, especially after the auction house advises everyone they can raise the bids on their own items!

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Any comments on what I find to be BS?

[allstarsplus]

Re: Auction House May Consign And Bid On Their Own Items

Sammy - I have never heard of R & R Auctions, but I have to give them credit to be honest enough to put that BS in writing.

There has long been a belief that some of those items they disclosed happens with regularity in the unregulated auction houses.

R&R may consign items to be sold in auction, and may bid on those lots or any other lots.

For financial gain on the end price premiums and keeping happier sellers, they know the top bid and it seems to me that this is "disclosed shill bidding" in my opinion to do this (unless I am misunderstanding this statement):

Where non-published reserves exist, R&R may make bids in response to others.

There are so many auction choices these days that sometimes it is better to not be tempted by their catalogues and toss them straight into the recycling bin!!!!

These 20% buyers fees (rounded up) are just hitting the stratosphere of ridiculous. If I want to spend $1,000 total for an item, I would bid up to $840 so my total would come to $1,000 with the buyer's premium. The seller ultimately is the one losing out. The seller in that example gets paid out at $840 less the seller's premium.

Again, the only way to truly show your displeasure is to NOT BID and DON'T CONSIGN.

Andrew

[sylbry]

Re: Auction House May Consign And Bid On Their Own Items

Where non-published reserves exist, R&R may make bids in response to others.

What is a non-published reserve? Is it:

1) The item has a reserve price but the reserve price is not published.

or

2) The item is listed without a reserve. However the consignor wants to get "x" amount of money for it. Thus a non-published reserve.

I have no trust in a couple internet auction houses so #2 wouldn't surprise me.

[David]

Re: Auction House May Consign And Bid On Their Own Items

For those unfamiliar, R & R is a non-sports (primarily) and sport autograph auction house. Offering no comments on their stated bidding practices and having never consigned or won anything from them, I can say they are considered reputable autograph authenticity-wise. Their president, Bob Eaton, is a non-sport autograph advisor/expert for PSA/DNA.

Having no knowledge of who bids and where in R & R, it is conceivable for an auction house to have simultaneous online and live/physically in-person bidding, and the auction house places online bids for the in person bidders. So I can imagine legitimate circumstances where the auction house would place a bid for someone else.

[David]

Re: Auction House May Consign And Bid On Their Own Items

The president of one of the big auction houses that mails out printed auction catalogs, said that, while most of the bidding in done online by the bidder, there is a small percentage of people uncomfortable bidding online and prefer to either mail or (more commonly) phone in their bids. In these cases the auction house is placing bids for the client, with the client's permission and direction. I assume this type 'off line' bidding happens to some degree with all the major auction houses.

While most visiting this website are comfortable bidding and paying online, there are collectors who prefer to bid through an auction house representative and not deal with a web page. As they receive the auction catalog, they know everything that's up for bid without looking at a computer.

[allstarsplus]

Re: Auction House May Consign And Bid On Their Own Items

Having no knowledge of who bids and where in R & R, it is conceivable for an auction house to have simultaneous online and live/physically in-person bidding, and the auction house places online bids for the in person bidders. So I can imagine legitimate circumstances where the auction house would place a bid for someone else.

David - Thanks for the background on R&R. I think we need an English scholar with a forensic background to pull apart the meaning of what Sammy posted. From your post though, simultaneous bidding and bidding on behalf of a 3rd party in an arms length transaction is common in live auctions, but I didn't decipher that conceptually from this, but you could be right:

Originally Posted by sammy
Where non-published reserves exist, R&R may make bids in response to others.

This seems to me in plain English that R&R can bid for themselves or anyone else from what I am reading----if it doesn't mean that---than they need to rewrite it:

R&R may consign items to be sold in auction, and may bid on those lots or any other lots.

Maybe someone who knows R&R can get them to further explain their positions here on these statements.

Andrew

[sammy]

Re: Auction House May Consign And Bid On Their Own Items

From the way their rules are written and perceived by me, they can bid on their own lots just to raise the price.

No where in that wording is it implied or stated that they are bidding on these lots for a third party.

As for this statement: "Where non-published reserves exist, R&R may make bids in response to others."

I believe this means the item has a reserve and they will bid on that item to try and make a legitmate bidder meet that reserve by bidding against that person, also known as shill bidding on eBay.