ebay seller lambeauleeper and "game issued"

[Eric]

Re: ebay seller lambeauleeper and "game issued"

I don't understand your point with the AMI Favre. That's a shirt with no wear and a letter from Lou Lampson. I think to help your argument that what you, I mean lambeauleeper sells is valid, you might want to compare it to jerseys with a Favre authentic hologram.

Can someone find one of those?

Eric

[Eric]

Re: ebay seller lambeauleeper and "game issued"

Here is a 2002 Favre jersey size 52 from my collection which is sourced from someone in the St. Louis Rams front office. A little different than the AMI you reference above.







Eric

[gwh11]

Re: ebay seller lambeauleeper and "game issued"

Regarding the correct size, specs, etc. for a jersey of a particular player, it's important not to rely on just one auction house listing. Auction houses make mistakes obviously, so sometimes you really have to look at several different pieces from a player. In the case of Favre, Grey Flannel sold a 2002 Favre in an '05 auction which was a size 52. That jersey came with a letter from Favre stating it was game used. Also consider:

2000 Favre jersey sold by Grey Flannel, size 52
2003 Favre throwback jersey sold by Lelands, size 52
2003 Favre home jersey sold by Lelands, size 52
2004 Favre home jersey sold by American Memorabilia, size 52
2001 Favre away jersey sold by Lelands, size 52
2001 Favre away jersey sold by Authentic Gamers, size 52

All of the above came with a Favre hologram + a letter from him stating they were game used.

Now I'm not advocating that anyone rely only on provenance when purchasing gamers, but if you're just going to compare something only based on auction house offerings, do as broad of a search as possible.
Guy

[Eric]

Re: ebay seller lambeauleeper and "game issued"

No. Just checked out this site today. I have a lot of game worn and issued pieces. I just doon't think it is fair to pay for one thing and expect another!

So you say you're not lambeauleeper BUT he's from wisconsin and so are you, he sells a lot of marino items and your name is Dolphin13, AND the american memorabilia link which you posted here three times just happens to be included in the brand new listing for the size 50 2002 Favre "game issued used" jersey

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140120466699&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:middle:us

Might you be stretching the truth?

[mvandor]

Re: ebay seller lambeauleeper and "game issued"

Re: the LT helmet, I believe those photos are of mine, the one I purchased from lambeau in 2006.

First, I'm unaware of any second LT helmet offered by lambeau, and can see no such reference to a second in reviewing his feedback history. Perhaps aeneas01 who obviously has good knowledge on LT and his helmet history could clarify this comment?

Secondly, my photo comparisons indicated the helmet - if genuine - was likely a 2004 model rather than the 2005 lambeau advertised it as. aeneas01, you seem to feel that's the closest reference as well, but dismiss it because of the facemask and rear decal.

Perhaps I lack an eye for detail, but how is the facemask different? It certainly appears the same to me. Regarding the rear bumper decal, I can find no photos from the 2004 Chargers-Jags game on either Corbis or Gettyone that show LT's rear bumper in that game, however, the below pic of Ben Leber from that game does show the exact same rear bumper decal on his helmet. Do you have some photographic evidence that LT's helmet was different and lacked that decal?

BTW, I'm curious as to how you would know what I paid for the helmet as you can't view that old a listing on ebay, and where you got those pics which are no longer on ebay. You'd have had to have been developing a database of such items and have saved this info in 2006. Perhaps you can shed some light on how and why you have this info?



BTW, I actually attempted to email the Chargers Equipment Manager last year to see if he'd be willing to look at the helmet and give an opinion, and I never received a reply. Perhaps a phone call might have produced better results, I don't know. Or perhaps aeneas, you have connections with Wick and can help arrange an inspection?

Perhaps I've been defensive because I want to believe the helmet is in fact legit. That would be natural. However, I really would prefer to know the truth, I either overpaid for a great copy by a few hundred, or got a steal on a legit one. I can live with either result.

[Eric]

Re: ebay seller lambeauleeper and "game issued"

Here are pics of my 2003 Tomlinson Throwback helmet (with mouthpiece) from NFL Auctions






Eric

[mvandor]

Re: ebay seller lambeauleeper and "game issued"

Eric, very interesting, must have cost you body parts as that appears to be an indisputable 2003 game used LT from NFL Auctions. We've already discussed their inflated pricing.

As far as I can tell this differs from mine (the one under so much scrutiny) in several ways. 1. front bumper decal (not used on Chargers helmets in 2004 from my research, at least not on LT's throwback helmet in the Jags game) 2. the face shield on mine goes all the way around which is consistent with pics I've reviewed for 2004 forward for LT 3. blue Riddell labeled chin strap (mine was sold without one I believe, either lambeau gave me an otherwise identical one or I purchased one for it, I don't recall).

Otherwise yours looks identical to mine as best I can tell.

[aeneas01]

Re: ebay seller lambeauleeper and "game issued"

Here are pics of my 2003 Tomlinson Throwback helmet (with mouthpiece) from NFL Auctions.

nice helmet - riddell chinstraps with the letters screened in any color other than stock red are very hard to obtain and very difficult for forgers to competently replicate (even though i have seen clumsy attempts in the past). for a forger to complete a fake complete with authentic chinstrap with non-red lettering, he would have to buy the custom straps from riddell (but you have to order at least 100 or so for custom jobs) or be lucky enough to have one from another helmet. that's why people like lambeauleeper simply just exclude them.

what i have always found goofy is when equipment managers put the team decal on the rear base of the helmet for sake of uniformity as can be seen on your helmet eric. this process started for good reason - the idea was to cover the clashing red letters of the riddell logo that appears on the front bumper and the rear neck pad lip. but schutt helmets never had a rear neck pad lip with garish lettering. nonetheless, equipment managers continue to put the same rear team decals (shaped to cover riddell neck pad lips) on shutt helmets - which, imo, seem to float on the back of the helmet for no apparent reason!

i almost exlcusively stay away from modern "game-used" football helmets - they are, for the most part, just too easy to replicate given the readily available decals for sale. however, many equipment managers do very small things to their helmets that every forger i have seen misses. these small things are hard to notice and hard to pick up on in photos. for example, there is something very unique about favre's otherwise very common looking game-used helmet that lambeauleeper missed completely - that, among other reasons, is why i knew he was a crook.

while many of the decals available on ebay are very close to what teams use, they are nothing more than just good copies and under close scrutiny don't hold up - simply put, these decals are not what the teams use. the current (gold) rams horns, for example, are probably the toughest decals to replicate - there has never been a set of current "authentic" rams decals available on ebay despite the many claims. as with the case of the rams horns, it can be hard to tell the difference between originals and fakes unless you have them side by side - and then the difference can be very stark.

a good example of the slight difference between authentic decals used by a team and a copy available on ebay can be seen when comparing eric's helmet with lambeauleeper's fake - look how much wider the the lightning bolts are on the fake which can best be seen by looking at the back of the helmet. if one were to drop $15 for a pair of bolt decals on ebay, they would find that they are identical to lambeauleeper's.

todd hewitt, equipment manager of the rams, also does several unique things to to his helmets that are never picked up by forgers and, as such, it is really easy to spot fake rams' helmets. as much as i would like to publicly state what these differences are, and what lambeauleeper missed on the favre helmet, i won't because it will just give these frauds something else to shoot for.

Perhaps I lack an eye for detail, but how is the facemask different?

the facemask on eric's helmet is correct and is what tomlinson wore in the three games the bolts played with white helmts from 2002-2004. in 2005 when tomlinson switched to a different helmet he also switched to a different facemask, the kind which can be seen in the photos of lambeauleeper's fake. my guess is that lambeauleeper was using a 2005 helmet as his template given the facemask style and rear decal.

here's a 2004 shot of tomlinson and eric's helemt - notice the section of the facemask in the red circle; identical. this is the facemask tomlinson wore on his white helmet prior to his helmet change in 2005.





now here's a 2005 shot of tomlinson with his new helmet and facemask (photo reversed for easy comparison) and lambeauleeper's fake. notice the area inside the red circle; identical.

BTW, I'm curious as to how you would know what I paid for the helmet as you can't view that old a listing on ebay, and where you got those pics which are no longer on ebay. You'd have had to have been developing a database of such items and have saved this info in 2006. Perhaps you can shed some light on how and why you have this info?

when i finally got around to actually collecting helmets 3-4 years ago (having been an enthusiast for decades) i thought it would also be interesting to at the same time create a photo-database of noteworthy helmets sold at auction including their selling prices. to date i have well over 10,000 photos in my database including many sold by lambeauleeper.

not only has this database proven to be a very valuable reference tool, but it never ceases to amaze me how often the helmets i've included re-surface for sale time and again and often with "different" stories of how they were obtained. when i first came across lambeauleeper, i logged his helmets as well and their selling prices - but so many identical ones would be relisted by lambeaukeeper that i stopped logging every version of each of his helmets. and the same goes for other helmets as well - i have many helmets in my database that have resurfaced at least 5 different times in the last 3 years - but rather than keep logging a new photo of the same helmet every time it resurfaces, i simply update the selling price of the photo i have on file. in the past i've also subscribed to several great online photo services (they can be expensive) which has allowed me to create an excellent "reference" photo gallery consisting of over 20,000 photos.

it's amazing what you find when you have such an enormous reference tool, especially of past auctions. helmets resurface all of the time where the seller will put a different facemask on it and create a different history or will switch out paddings, add decals, etc. and try to claim they are something they are not.

one character, vintagekusports (ebay), picked up a beautiful clearshell marietta helmet (delaware blue hens) from a delaware booster - the booster told how he had obtained it from the team and also inlcuded other delaware trinkets in the auction including pennants, large round blue hen pins, a little stuffed mascot, etc.

well, once the ebay history lookup expired, vintagekusports promptly slapped a facemask on it and listed it as a rare game-used michigan helmet that he obtained from a reliable source. imagine his surprise when i called him on it and sent him photos from my database showing it when it was originally listed with all of the other delaware trinkets. he responded by ending his auction and relisting it with protected bidder ids so i caouldn't alert buyers - what a piece of work.

btw, mvandor - i'm sorry if you were the person that purchased lambeauleeper's fake. you will have a tough time with your conscience should the time come when you want to move it given that you could easily list it as a "game-issued" helmet. i've most people that get taken pass along the same salespitch that got them and try to move on... tough call.

[mvandor]

Re: ebay seller lambeauleeper and "game issued"

Thank you aeneas, now that you have pointed out the facemask and lightning bolt differences, I see them. In fact, I have a signed Antonio Gates 2006 helmet that came from RealStuff (one of the main helmet copier businesses, although I often can see issues with their helmets) and now that I compare the lightning bolts, they are the same on the Gates copy and the LT helmet I have, and both are wider than Eric's. Or the photos. It would appear I have an otherwise outstanding knockoff of a 2004 game issue helmet, one I overpaid for.

What intrigues me is the incredibly low volume lambeauleeper does, at least under that ID. In the last 12 months, he's logged but EIGHT seller's feedbacks. As of late, hHe's been reserving items resulting in "no sales". No "crook" can operate on that low of an income or profit margin. Ain't the way criminals work. Seems more probable to me he simply lacks your knowledge and picks these things up at shows, then moves items as he picks up new ones.

BTW, I would be interested in any experience you have with Gridiron Authentics (gridironlegends on ebay). I've purchased many items from them over the years, and have discussed a number of things with the owner, including his tighter definition of "game issue". He's in New England and always seems to have great "game issue" items usually from the Pats. He has told me he gets these from either the teams or "their suppliers" and that neither he nor his staff "doctor" any helmets, apply no decals, etc. I have viewed them as perhaps the most honorable ebay sellers, and that includes comparing to guy's like Rick Radtke that use the now common "game issue" term on known copies.

[Eric]

Re: ebay seller lambeauleeper and "game issued"

Here's how the 2004 Antonio Gates throwback helmet from NFL Auctions looks




2004 Philip Rivers from NFL Auctions. The previous owner got it signed in person...

[aeneas01]

Re: ebay seller lambeauleeper and "game issued"

Thank you aeneas, now that you have pointed out the facemask and lightning bolt differences, I see them. In fact, I have a signed Antonio Gates 2006 helmet that came from RealStuff (one of the main helmet copier businesses, although I often can see issues with their helmets) and now that I compare the lightning bolts, they are the same on the Gates copy and the LT helmet I have, and both are wider than Eric's. Or the photos. It would appear I have an otherwise outstanding knockoff of a 2004 game issue helmet, one I overpaid for.

i would agree that you have a very nice reproduction (although if you notice your padding is also different than what tomlinson wore in 2004; check out eric's). if nothing else lambeauleeper does take pride in his reproductions and they are very nice imo - it's just a shame he feels the need to misrepresent them for, in the scheme of things, a few extra bucks.

What intrigues me is the incredibly low volume lambeauleeper does, at least under that ID. In the last 12 months, he's logged but EIGHT seller's feedbacks. As of late, hHe's been reserving items resulting in "no sales". No "crook" can operate on that low of an income or profit margin. Ain't the way criminals work. Seems more probable to me he simply lacks your knowledge and picks these things up at shows, then moves items as he picks up new ones.

imho one doesn't need to move forgeries in volume to be a crook - some poor soul recently paid him $1,200 for a $150 marino reproduction. do about a dozen of those a year and that equates to close to $15k in tax-free part-time income - not too shabby considering he doesn't even have to mess with painting the shell!

as far as him inocently and unknowingly picking these up at shows thinking they are legit and listing them on ebay as such is concerned - nonsense. he specifically chooses easily replicated modern helmets and when he sells one he lists another after laying low for a while. his m.o. of placing a high reserve is intentional as it implies, to some anyway, that perhaps it is in fact of real value - it must be because he doesn't want to let it go for less than what it's worth, right? wrong.

how many emails do you think this guys has received in the last 3 years alone questioning his items? if he honestly picked them up at shows as you suggest, wouldn't you think he might wonder if they were in fact authentic and perhaps stop listing them until he was certain? but, no, he continues to list them - he's a crook.

BTW, I would be interested in any experience you have with Gridiron Authentics (gridironlegends on ebay). I've purchased many items from them over the years, and have discussed a number of things with the owner, including his tighter definition of "game issue". He's in New England and always seems to have great "game issue" items usually from the Pats. He has told me he gets these from either the teams or "their suppliers" and that neither he nor his staff "doctor" any helmets, apply no decals, etc. I have viewed them as perhaps the most honorable ebay sellers, and that includes comparing to guy's like Rick Radtke that use the now common "game issue" term on known copies.

i have no experience with gridironlegends - it appears they deal mostly in autographed photos, mini helmets and footballs none of which are my bag. but i'm always happy to hear that there are honorable memorabila dealers on ebay!

[mvandor]

Re: ebay seller lambeauleeper and "game issued"

Eric, here's my auto'd Gates reproduction. You really have to microscope these things to id differences it seems to me. Looks pretty much like yours without the damage, no?




As to aeneas and lambeau, again, guy has a total of 8 buyer feedbacks in the last year. Don't get wasting your time for so little action. BTW he has a Marino helmet up now, and my previous communications with guys at Helmut Hut indicated that according to the Dolphins equipment manager during the Marino years, virtually NONE got out of his control. Based on that alone, I discount ALL Marino's as likely copies. Heck, I got a pretty good one from Pro Sports Investments back when I actually trusted them (see below). Figured it was bogus not only because the shell type seemed off from my research but you could see the outlines where the original warning stickers and NFL shield had been removed. At least I paid a reasonable price for a nice reproduction and the sig was an Upper Deck authenticated one.

[jayt1234]

Marino Helmt Value Reference

I have enjoed tremendously this post as someone who would like to increase my helmet collection. I just bough a Sam Hurd game used throwback from Game Used Exclusives. I know it is authentic and probally paid a bit more than I should have, but there is no denying its authenticity, and the thro backs get much less use. However I did buy a Marion Barber replica from Ebay and knew what I was buying, and it was sold as such. I also have a Drew Bledsoe autographed helmet I my girlfreind bought from his website. I know the signature is real, then I replicated the whole thing to his current Dallas helmet (all decals, Shutt mask, chin strap) it was a lot of work finding all of the decals (especially the dark blue Riddell front bumper), however it was fun and I would never sell it as real or game issued.

I though I would include a link to what a Dan Marino game used helmet would sell for in the real market.

http://sports.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=707&Lot_No=19912&src=pr

Jay

[jayt1234]

The Marino Helmet sold for $33,460

Sorry, the price would not show up.

Jay

[aeneas01]

Re: ebay seller lambeauleeper and "game issued"

As to aeneas and lambeau, again, guy has a total of 8 buyer feedbacks in the last year. Don't get wasting your time for so little action. BTW he has a Marino helmet up now...

still not sure why his apparent limited activity is such a cause of curiosity for you - often times ebay sellers contact their buyers and ask that they not post any feedback for various reasons and often times feeback is never left. and who says he's wasting his time? perhaps he owns and operates a memorabilia shop where he sells the bulk of his forgeries and dabbles on ebay just enough not to draw attention to himslef.

anyway, here are other "game-issued" fakes from lambeauleeper including another very rare marino helmet that he sold on ebay last month for $1,200...





one of his many favre lids...




one of his many elway lids...




a brees...





a reggie white...





the guy must have some pretty impressive connections to get his hands on so many "game issued" lids from current and future hall of famers, eh? why mess around obscure players when you can get a hold of multiple lids per super star? good grief...