Probably a touchy subject...

[sox83cubs84]

Re: Probably a touchy subject...

See - there is the problem. You are painting everyone with the same brush.

I have never pushed a child - or an adult for that matter - to get an autograph.

I have been pushed and shoved by many an adult and I have confronted the situation with the adult in an adult matter and moved on with my auto seeking.

I sleep just fine at night because I know that I am not guilty of any of the things you claim to know about 'adult' autograph seekers.

If I use that same 'broad brush' as you, you would appear to be an Elitist, 'Holier than Thou', Pious, Self Righteous, Indignant... well, you get the picture.

You're like anyone who puts down an activity, a book, a movie, a play, etc that they have never participated in, read or watched, but they believe they know everything about it.

You have no right to judge GodWulf, Dave M, myself or the countless others because for some unknown reason you seem to think you are better than other people.

Please come down from your Ivory Tower and let those who enjoy this part of the hobby enjoy it.

I have a question - when you have 'seen' grown men shove kids, have you done anything about? I doubt it.

I have. I'm a disabled vet who enjoys this part of the hobby - even when I have to deal with the jerks and the brats. You want to know what kind of autograph seeker I am? I'll tell you one story that should let you know.

At Hi Corbett in Tucson, years ago at Spring Training, there was 'kid' (he was 16 or so) in a wheelchair on the rail waiting for autographs. When Larry Walker came walking over, the crowd - mostly kids - starting literally climbin on his chair, some tried pushing him back, etc... I stepped in behind his chair (I didn't know the kid and I didn't see anyone else stepping in), reached around it and grabbed the railing and made the best shield around him I could.

When Walker got to the wall, he yelled at all the kids climbing on this kid and made them move back to give the kid room. He signed for the kid and he signed for me and he left. But I'm sure in your opinion, I should have given that autograph up to one of those 'deserving' brats that had no concern for a kid in a wheelchair.

So sorry Roady - but you don't really know jack about me or any of the other autograph seekers here - you just want everyone to fit into your very tightly constrained definition and accuse the group for the actions of the few.

I hope being so narrow minded helps you sleep well at night.

- Smitty

Smitty:

+1s on both posts.

Dave M.

[Billy77]

Re: Probably a touchy subject...

SMITTY...

Well stated and I agree with you 100%!!!

May your Sharpie never dry out in times of need!!!

Billy

[Roady]

Re: Probably a touchy subject...

Enjoy your hobby.

[xpress34]

Re: Probably a touchy subject...

I don't have to chase auto's to tell the difference between acting like a man and acting like a child.

I have seen the "adults" pushing and shoving for an autograph, everyone sees them. If that makes you happy that's fine.

You can justify anything you want if it helps you sleep at night.
I sleep very well knowing that I act like a man and I let the children act like children.

See - there is the problem. You are painting everyone with the same brush.

I have never pushed a child - or an adult for that matter - to get an autograph.

I have been pushed and shoved by many an adult and I have confronted the situation with the adult in an adult matter and moved on with my auto seeking.

I sleep just fine at night because I know that I am not guilty of any of the things you claim to know about 'adult' autograph seekers.

If I use that same 'broad brush' as you, you would appear to be an Elitist, 'Holier than Thou', Pious, Self Righteous, Indignant... well, you get the picture.

You're like anyone who puts down an activity, a book, a movie, a play, etc that they have never participated in, read or watched, but they believe they know everything about it.

You have no right to judge GodWulf, Dave M, myself or the countless others because for some unknown reason you seem to think you are better than other people.

Please come down from your Ivory Tower and let those who enjoy this part of the hobby enjoy it.

I have a question - when you have 'seen' grown men shove kids, have you done anything about? I doubt it.

I have. I'm a disabled vet who enjoys this part of the hobby - even when I have to deal with the jerks and the brats. You want to know what kind of autograph seeker I am? I'll tell you one story that should let you know.

At Hi Corbett in Tucson, years ago at Spring Training, there was 'kid' (he was 16 or so) in a wheelchair on the rail waiting for autographs. When Larry Walker came walking over, the crowd - mostly kids - starting literally climbin on his chair, some tried pushing him back, etc... I stepped in behind his chair (I didn't know the kid and I didn't see anyone else stepping in), reached around it and grabbed the railing and made the best shield around him I could.

When Walker got to the wall, he yelled at all the kids climbing on this kid and made them move back to give the kid room. He signed for the kid and he signed for me and he left. But I'm sure in your opinion, I should have given that autograph up to one of those 'deserving' brats that had no concern for a kid in a wheelchair.

So sorry Roady - but you don't really know jack about me or any of the other autograph seekers here - you just want everyone to fit into your very tightly constrained definition and accuse the group for the actions of the few.

I hope being so narrow minded helps you sleep well at night.

- Smitty

[Roady]

Re: Probably a touchy subject...

I don't have to chase auto's to tell the difference between acting like a man and acting like a child.

I have seen the "adults" pushing and shoving for an autograph, everyone sees them. If that makes you happy that's fine.

You can justify anything you want if it helps you sleep at night.
I sleep very well knowing that I act like a man and I let the children act like children.

[xpress34]

Re: Probably a touchy subject...

I agree that it is selfish on the collectors/sellers part it but the player can always sign just one and move on to the next person.
Do they ever do that? Just say they can't sign that many for one person?
I have never asked for an autograph at a game so I don't know.

Roady -

I've been collecting autos for the better part of 30 years and for someone who doesn't do it, you seem to be very judgmental of those of us that do and you certainly like to make your opinion known about how you think we should handle ourselves and who we should let go first (kids), etc.

Unless you do chase autos (and I hate that term), then you really have no basis for most of your complaints about those of us that collect autos.

I am always more than polite - asking please and thank you - as well as knowing more about the person I asking for an autograph than that they are this week's 'flavor' or hot rookie or whatever.

I also try to educate newbies on good autograph etiquette - not screaming constantly, knowing who the players are, waiting for them to finish warming up, etc.

I also have seen the 'entitled' or 'entitlement' attitude grow each year as kids who have not been raised with any type of social manners push crawl and try to squeeze their was through without so much as an 'excuse me' or 'please' etc. while their parents 'coach them from a few rows back to just make their way past others - and I'm not just talking about adults. I'm talking about them squeezing other kids out as well.

So I'll back sox83cubs84 and godwulf when they call many of these children brats. It's not because they have upset me, it's because that is what they are. They are (as the vernacular was back in my day as a child), "spoiled brats" who have been raised to believe that they should always get their way and what they want and that even if they fail, they should be given and award/trophy for trying. I'm sorry if this upsets your apparently sensitive sensibilities, but I was raised with the idea that your learn from your failures and mistakes. I have a friend who has a 6 year old and when he called me this year to tell me that they no longer keep score or track outs in T-Ball and some Little Leagues, I asked why. He said they don't want any kids to be 'losers'. I think that ideology has a lot to do with the 'entitlement mindset' of a lot of these kids growing up today.

All that said, there is also the final piece to this puzzle - the kids who show up everyday with their parent(s) who pull their items back when 'Joe Schmoe' comes to sign, but turn on the kid cuteness when the big names or rookies come by. You really think these kids are getting these items for themselves?

There's a kid here in Denver who until last year when he had a growth spurt used his small stature to snag every big name or rookie - and bragged that he sold them all. He was almost 18 when he had the growth spurt but looked like he was 11 or 12. And there's plenty of other kids I've heard brag about how someone paid them to come down and get player X, Y or Z's auto.

I have a pretty good sense who the kids are that are truly just excited to get an auto - any auto - just for the sheer joy of it vs the ones who are working the system for themselves, their parents or a dealer.

Unfortunately, those 'kids' and the 'brats' make it tough to just want to move anytime a kid shows up.

And on a closing note, as I have told many players who have said they don't sign for anyone over 18... 'I appreciate you signing for the kids - you should sign for the kids - but don't forget who dropped $40, $50, $60 for that box seat. It certainly wan't that 6, 8,10, etc year old...' many have stopped. looked at me and realized that while children may be the future of the game and it's fans, adults and parents like myself are the ones who fund that.

So while I am happy that guys sign for the kids, I do not agree with your ideology that everyone should just step out of the way and let the kids get autographs. I understand the kids can't help what time they get there - but their parents certainly can.

Sorry for the long rant everyone.

All the best -

Smitty

[sox83cubs84]

Re: Probably a touchy subject...

To each their own, I guess...but I still intend to call 'em as I see 'em.

Dave M.

[godwulf]

Re: Probably a touchy subject...

You're right, of course - in most cases, it isn't the kid's fault that he or she is a brat. That fact doesn't make the label in any way less applicable.

[Roady]

Re: Probably a touchy subject...

I can understand being angry at the parents of misbehaving children. My children, from teenager to 8 years old, say thank you and yes sir no sir or yes ma'am and no ma'am. If I get a bad report about them or they don't respect others, especially their elders as I was taught, I will discipline them. I have always taught by children that there are consequences to your actions.

A child does not pick their parents or how they are raised. To call any child a derogatory name while being upset about their behavior is the height of hypocrisy. How can grown men who are supposed to be mature and level headed call children names at all?

It upsets me to hear grownups call children names and get so upset about them. I always thought as adults we would set the example not come down to the level we are complaining about.

[godwulf]

Re: Probably a touchy subject...

My anger is usually mostly reserved for, and directed at, the parents of the brats - perfectly good English word, more than applicable in this case - who bring their little darlings to the ballpark, and then pay no attention whatsoever to their conduct. Their behavior is inflicted on paying patrons, there to watch a Baseball game, not to babysit or to instruct someone else's kids on how to behave in a public place.

When it comes to autograph etiquette, I certainly wouldn't expect a little kid, maybe five or six, to know a player's name, but older than that and a parent ought not to just put a ball into a kid's hand and set them loose to grab anybody in a uniform for a signature. I've seen kids who were old enough to know better - and probably would, had a parent ever taught them - trying to get players on the field to sign during the game. I've seen kids trying to get a starting pitcher to come over and sign while he was engaged in his pre-game warm-up. (Although I must confess that I've seen the odd adult do the same thing, from time to time.) I have seen kids trying to get a fielder to toss them a baseball that was in play.

Last night, at a Fall League game at Salt River Fields, there were more than a dozen boys, aged about eleven or twelve, who spent the whole nine innings charging through the seats, screaming, and only paying attention to the game when a foul ball was hit. Numerous times, I had to tell a kid to sit down or move, 'cause he was standing, glove at the ready, exactly between me and the plate. Once, a couple of kids wandering through the section wanted me to stand up so they could get past me, when there were three rows completely empty behind me and eight empty rows in front of me. Idiots. I simply told them to go away, keeping the expletives in my head.

I was beginning to wonder whether there were any adults there with them, when I heard one of the boys call a man "Coach". This guy was sitting with seven or eight other adults in a little cluster, all paying far more attention to their own conversation and their beers than to either the game or the kids they'd apparently brought. These ostensible adults were in full view and earshot of the chaos and distraction being caused by their charges, and obviously didn't give a s**t. I'm assuming that this assemblage represented some kind of Baseball team; I wonder how they would feel if a dozen adults came to one of their games and acted the way they were acting at the game last night.

[Roady]

Re: Probably a touchy subject...

I don't call well-behaved kids brats...just the ones who have never been taught how to act in public. And I wouldn't care if the Pope was standing there, I'd call it as I see it.

Dave Miedema

Your calls are sometimes in question.

[sox83cubs84]

Re: Probably a touchy subject...

Everyones kids are brats unless it's your kids.

I understand the frustration but why would a grown man call children wanting an autograph a brat?
Talk about setting an example. I bet you wouldn't call them brats to most of their fathers faces.

I don't call well-behaved kids brats...just the ones who have never been taught how to act in public. And I wouldn't care if the Pope was standing there, I'd call it as I see it.

Dave Miedema

[Roady]

Re: Probably a touchy subject...

I'm a firm believer that if you find yourself getting mad at children then maybe you should find another hobby.

[Billy77]

Re: Probably a touchy subject...

I'm a firm believer in...You should not ask for some ones autograph if you do not know who it is. It's very rude especially the way parents "adults" and their children ask these days.

Just a different generation now. People believe players "owe" them something.

[lengthwise1]

Re: Probably a touchy subject...

The worst part is when the kids, at there parents behest, force there way in to get an autograph and then have no idea who the guy is. Its hard enough to get an autograph because it seems a lot of players wont even sign for grown men. David Wright has signed a few times at roads games but he walks by anyone who is not under 12 or, of course, a good looking female. I don't understand why kids think they should, and are given anything they want. I look at it like this, in 10 years that 9 year old is going to be a rude, entitled PIA 19 year old with my, probably long forgotten, autograph.

On the other hand it is nice to be able to have my, now 14 year old, niece be able to get autographs for me.

I know, I have been trying to get his 143rd HR signed since 2010!