‘Powerized’ Branding Variation on 1976 H & B Bicentennial Bats --- What ???

[MSpecht]

Re: ‘Powerized’ Branding Variation on 1976 H & B Bicentennial Bats --- What ???

Note that the dual branded 1976 Aaron recently on Ebay went for $ 690.00, a pretty hefty price for what is most likely (99%) a commemorative or promo bat, but still way below the price that would be commanded by a legitimate GU 1976 Aaron bat.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Henry-Aaron-1976-Bicentennial-Game-Issued-Brewers-Bat-/370376368366?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item563c26e0ee

At least the Ebay seller termed it 'game-issued' rather than 'game-used.' Either way, however, even that description is not supported by any evidence that has surfaced in the last thirty-four years.

Keep an eye out for a future appearance of this bat (or any dual branded 1976 bat) with manufactured game use on it, as happened to a GUU member who purchased what he thought was a 'game-used' dual branded 1976 Bench bat.

Mike jackitout7@aol.com

[jbsportstuff]

Re: ‘Powerized’ Branding Variation on 1976 H & B Bicentennial Bats --- What ???

Most likely the same Roy White bat referred to earlier

The biggest issue is that there has never been any photo proof of any major league ballplayer using a bat that has the 1976 Bicentennial logo and the powerized logo. Until that happens, I can't believe that they were ever used by a player. See Mike's post below point #4.

[ironmanfan]

Re: ‘Powerized’ Branding Variation on 1976 H & B Bicentennial Bats --- What ???

Here is a Roy White 1976 Bicentennial LS Bat with the Powerized Logo!

http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-ROY-WHITE-G...item2c54944746

Most likely the same Roy White bat referred to earlier

[camarokids]

Re: ‘Powerized’ Branding Variation on 1976 H & B Bicentennial Bats --- What ???

Here is a Roy White 1976 Bicentennial LS Bat with the Powerized Logo!

http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-ROY-WHITE-GAME-USED-BAT-1976-H-B-UC-YANKEES-/190397564742?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c54944746

[MSpecht]

Re: ‘Powerized’ Branding Variation on 1976 H & B Bicentennial Bats --- What ???

This morning Dave Grob posted an informative article on the MEARS site which catalogs branding variations seen in 1976 H & B bats. The article can be found at

http://www.mearsonline.com/news/newsDetail.asp?id=715

While informative, I believe it addresses a slightly different topic that the one that began this thread. And, actually, there is no significant conflict between our articles--- I focused exclusively on what Dave terms the Type III and Type IV variations---(Powerized w/ Liberty Bell)---- and also mentioned the Type V variation in the original article... I did not consider the dash / no dash variations in the discussion as that has been long recognized as existing in 1976 and was not relevant to the specific question at hand..

The issues I take with Dave's article are that, while a 'legitimate variation' (as they obviously exist), the fact remains that in 34 years, NO evidence has surfaced that any of these bats has seen use in a Major League game --- not one photograph has been found that shows a Type III or Type IV variation in the hands of any Major League player, nor have any of these bats been sourced from player's (batboys, etc) collections. That either speaks to 1) the rarity of the variation, or 2) the possibility that these variations never made it into the hands of the players whose name appears on the barrel, or even into Major League clubhouses.

One statement that I think is a bit misleading, is Dave's comment that the possibility that many, if not all, of these known variations entered the hobby from a single source "has no bearing on the issue of labeling variations." While that is technically true, I think that, to the average reader, it suggests that these "Powerized / Liberty Bell" bats:

1) 'have the potential' to be professional model bats, (yes)

2) that were manufactured by H & B, (yes)

3) for the personal professional use of the player whose name appears on the barrel (maybe, maybe not), and

4) were in fact used by that player (no evidence of that has surfaced in 34 years).

I think the main issue here is that Dave and I are really writing about two different things: Dave writing about his research regarding the known branding variations that have been seen in 1976 H & B bats, and my article regarding the (very, very slim) liklihood / potential / possibility that two of these variations (one variation if you do not factor in the dash) actually ever saw professional game use or even made it into players' hands (here is where the single source takes on importance.) Two different subjects researched for two different reasons.

The unfortunate thing about this situation is that we have seen solid evidence that one of these Powerized / Liberty Bell variations had been faked up (very well apparently) for the sole purpose of defrauding collectors and turning an unused, professional model variation bat worth a couple hundred dollars into a highly-sought (1976) game used (seemingly perfect GU player characteristics) Hall of Famer (Johnny Bench) bat potentially worth what, $ 3500.00 plus ?? Without catching this, and alerting collectors, how many of these previously unused Powerized / Liberty Bell variations would have turned up in the future with manufactured professional use ? And still might ?

Mike

[33bird]

Re: ‘Powerized’ Branding Variation on 1976 H & B Bicentennial Bats --- What ???

Mike did some great homework and I helped with some of the stuff, but let's not jump the gun and consider the issue dead. Dave Grob is writing an article about the 1976 bats right now and already has evidence of 7 different branding variations used during the 1976 season on H&B bats. After we read his research on the subject we should know a lot more about the crazy bicentennial bats!

[jbsportstuff]

Re: ‘Powerized’ Branding Variation on 1976 H & B Bicentennial Bats --- What ???

What a great thread. I've seen one bench bat that has both powerized and the bicenttenial logo...but the bat literally had no use. I asked the seller if it was guarenteed to pass PSA or Mears and they said ABSOLUTELY. I just didn't feel comfortable with it....

[sayhey24]

Re: ‘Powerized’ Branding Variation on 1976 H & B Bicentennial Bats --- What ???

Now the question is -- can the person who got taken with the bad Bench bat get his money back?

Greg

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: ‘Powerized’ Branding Variation on 1976 H & B Bicentennial Bats --- What ???

Mike:

You did a good job communicating the thoughts that were running through my head last week.......

Show me a Jack Brohamer or an Ed Goodson and I may think otherwise, but it seemed awfully odd that the presence of the Powerized labeling appeared to be skewed toward the star players...

Good point, and it was blatantly obvious.

But absent the time to do the proper research done here by the "Deep Fly Ball" mystery guest, one just has to keep his mouth shut.

Mike, incredibly helpful display of how it's done.

Chalk up another addition to the "Exceptionally Educational Threads".....it's a keeper.

[karamaxjoe]

Re: ‘Powerized’ Branding Variation on 1976 H & B Bicentennial Bats --- What ???

This has to be the most informative post I've seen since "Robert the Helmet Genius" took his sabbatical.

BIG +1

[earlywynnfan]

Re: ‘Powerized’ Branding Variation on 1976 H & B Bicentennial Bats --- What ???

Now this is the kind of post that makes this forum worthwhile. This has to be the most informative post I've seen since "Robert the Helmet Genius" took his sabbatical.

Thank you so much, Mike!

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

[MSpecht]

Re: ‘Powerized’ Branding Variation on 1976 H & B Bicentennial Bats --- What ???

Dave Grob has made additional posts on this subject on the MEARS Bulliten Board site at :


http://www.network54.com/Forum/427155/message/1263679899/Mike+Specht%27s+Article+on+1976+Branding+Variation s


As always, Dave's comments and observations are intellectually astute and interesting. Basically, we are saying much the same thing. A portion of Dave's post states:

"Tied to this is Mikes observation that a number of bats bearing this version of Powrized, Liberty Bell, and Model # on the barrel appear to be of players of provenance and largely with little or no use. Mike also suggests that based on the auction lot groupings, they may have all come a single source. While the first point is an observable observation and the second (sourcing) may well be true as well, they have to be considered with some sort of context nested back to the seminal issue, theories to explain this branding variation.


Explanations for what we are seeing might run the gamut of: Just another branding variation for the year in question.

To Bats produced for some other purpose other than professional issuance and use.


All of this should be explained and justified before addressing the use/non-use issue. If you accept the premise that this is a just another branding variation, but the bats may not have been shipped to the players, this may explain how one person may have been able to obtain them at one time. Could it have been that these bats showing no use where produced for the players at some time during the 1976 season, but never shipped? This is possible, but then to you also have contented with the fact that if so, then others could have been produced for other less desirable players and disposed of in some other manner."


There is no significant disagreement between our positions, but I would like to clarify a bit. The basis of my post was initially to focus on the small number of the dual branded bats that have actually surfaced in the hobby (less than 20 that we could track down) and that they all displayed strikingly similar characteristics -- basically high profile players with little, if any, professional game use evident. No conclusion was made whether these were professional model bats or something other than that. The focus was on use, and the liklihood whether these bats had ever been in the players hands.


Unfortunately, during the research of these bats, things took an ugly turn. It became obvious, and well documented with photographic evidence, that one of these bats had received manufactured game use ( faked game use) between the time it was apparently introduced into the hobby (2002) and its current (2010) resting place in a GUF member's collection. For that reason, the ultimate thrust of the article was to be very, very careful when encountering these bats, as the liklihood of these bats (although they may well be professional grade) having seen actual use in Major League games has not yet been determined, and, at this time, the scales are heavily weighted against them.

Mike jackitout7@aol.com

[metsbats]

Re: ‘Powerized’ Branding Variation on 1976 H & B Bicentennial Bats --- What ???

There was actually photo evidence of that in that thread that Mike linked

Thanks ironmanfan. It's amazing how much more there was to learn here after we all thought we knew all there was to know about these 76 HBs!

Great stuff!

[bagbig]

Re: ‘Powerized’ Branding Variation on 1976 H & B Bicentennial Bats --- What ???

Incredible research, great job. Thanks!

[ironmanfan]

Re: ‘Powerized’ Branding Variation on 1976 H & B Bicentennial Bats --- What ???

As an aside John Taube told me there may be 1976 bats without the BiCentennial stamps too. He indicated the only way to verify this is a bat will have to match a unique order in 1976 and not have the liberty bell stamp.

There was actually photo evidence of that in that thread that Mike linked