What does it take for you to believe a story?

[G1X]

Re: What does it take for you to believe a story?

I was working in my yard on Sunday and looked up to see a magnificent bald eagle circling about 100 feet above my house. None of my neighbors were outside at the time to observe the eagle. I did not take any photos, and there were no eagle feathers (or droppings) deposited on my deck.

There was no evidence that the eagle was there. However, my neighbors had no problem believing my story because eagles live in our area, and most important, they trust me.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

[Vintagedeputy]

Re: What does it take for you to believe a story?

I was working in my yard on Sunday and looked up to see a magnificent bald eagle circling about 100 feet above my house. None of my neighbors were outside at the time to observe the eagle. I did not take any photos, and there were no eagle feathers (or droppings) deposited on my deck.

There was no evidence that the eagle was there. However, my neighbors had no problem believing my story because eagles live in our area, and most important, they trust me.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

I bet you could get Lou Lampson to write a COA for you.

[G1X]

Re: What does it take for you to believe a story?

Vintage Deputy,

Is that a stab at humor, or are you completely missing the point?

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

[Vintagedeputy]

Re: What does it take for you to believe a story?

It was obviously a poor attempt at humor.

[kingjammy24]

Re: What does it take for you to believe a story?

I was working in my yard on Sunday and looked up to see a magnificent bald eagle circling about 100 feet above my house. None of my neighbors were outside at the time to observe the eagle. I did not take any photos, and there were no eagle feathers (or droppings) deposited on my deck.

There was no evidence that the eagle was there. However, my neighbors had no problem believing my story because eagles live in our area, and most important, they trust me.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

mark

i understand your point re: trust. the issue here is that most prospective buyers have no clue who this person is who's stating that ortiz gave him the jersey. when there is no trust, you've got to rely on some sort of evidence, especially with such a wild story. i suppose they could trust GFC although in my personal opinion that trust would be misplaced. the fact that ortiz removed his jersey prior to the end of the game already doesn't bode well. i'd be very curious to know how this story was verified by GFC or MEARS, beyond simply a guy saying "yup. it happened. i swear". it's fine if GFC trusted him, for one reason or another. given that his identity wasn't revealed nor was any evidence given whatsoever about his relationship with ortiz or anything else, i'd like to know how or why prospective buyers are expected to trust the story to the tune of $5k.

that said, i wonder how many of your neighbors would choose to believe your story if meant they'd lose $5k if it turned out to be wrong

rudy.

[G1X]

Re: What does it take for you to believe a story?

Vintage Deputy,
I must admit that I grinned when I read your post.

Rudy,
As for my neighbors, I would pay them the $5,000 if I was incorrect in what I saw last Sunday.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

[David]

Re: What does it take for you to believe a story?

Much depends on who's telling the story. If George Steinbrenner says Billy Martin gave him the glove for his birthday, that's certainly a plausible story. If my dad says he met Warren Spahn at the Milwaukee airport, I'd believe the story. If the story comes from someone you don't know well, and have no no knowledge to be trustworthy or untrustworthy, it's just a story. Might be true, but you don't know. If this person has a ticket from the game and Kodak snapshots with Willie Mays, that gives credence that Mays gave him the bat in person as he claims. If a bat expert says the bat is a genuine Mays gamer, you might well believe his story about meeting Mays.

[David]

Re: What does it take for you to believe a story?

I know Dave Bushing says a good letter of provenance, or story, should come from someone who was in a legitimate otherwise provable position to obtain the item. A bat boy, coach and even someone who can prove she worked as Mickey Mantle's maid would have been in an occupational position to know the player and possibly obtain an item.

[David]

Re: What does it take for you to believe a story?

It has been said that for every forgery (whether painting, Babe Ruth autograph or baseball card) there is an accompanying made up story about where it came from.

[kingjammy24]

Re: What does it take for you to believe a story?

from mears:

"In the specific case of the 2007 David Ortiz jersey being offered by Grey Flannel Auctions, the jersey was notated via an authentic autograph inscription by David Ortiz as Game Used. The inscription per David Ortiz was both reasonable and verifiable (authentic inscription)."

so, fair enough..it wasn't the consigner's story that got the A10. it was ortiz's inscription. interestingly enough, it still goes back to the issue of trust. some players will write "game used" on anything you pay them too. others actually have scruples. who knows where ortiz fits in. i'm guessing somewhere near manny "hey it's my bbq! ok, it's not really my bbq" ramirez.

mark: fair enough! i'd love to see richie russek make the same money-back guarantee if the story is proven to be b.s.

anyway, if the jersey is legit, it's another interesting example of a jersey that steiner paid for via their contract that a player managed to sneak out. steiner signs an "exclusive" with the yankees and arod still sells his own jerseys elsewhere. they sign an exclusive with the redsox and ortiz sells them elsewhere anyway? steiner previously shut down some other yankee auctions. it'll be interesting to see if they have words with ortiz/gfc over this one.

rudy.

[hblakewolf]

Re: What does it take for you to believe a story?

Rudy-
I'd be curious to learn what the reaction by the folks at Steiner is to this specific jersey? I think Bob Maldenado (?) from Steiner is a Universe reader/member-can he possibly post his thoughts on this? If indeed Steiner has an EXCLUSIVE agreement, how did this particular shirt enter the hobby without their hologram and paperwork?

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[ChrisCavalier]

Re: What does it take for you to believe a story?

Hello Everyone,

I received a call from Dave Bushing today about this thread and he wanted to make sure it was clear that Mears granted 5 points for the player inscription (contributing to the A10 grade) and not the story of the friend who supposedly received the jersey from Ortiz. This point has been explained in further detail in the following post on the Mears site:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/426247/message/1193939849/Assigning+A10+grades+on+currrent+player+items

If you have any further questions about the Mears letter he said you can feel free to contact them directly.

Sincerely,
Chris

[Birdbats]

Re: What does it take for you to believe a story?

Interesting thread. Also interesting that one example mentioned a Willie Mays bat, because it allows me to add a slightly different twist to the conversation. I bought a seller's story (and his Willie Mays bat) based on the fact that he wasn't an expert.

A couple years ago, I received a call from a friend and fellow collector telling me that one of his co-workers had a Willie Mays bat and he was interested in selling it. The owner's story went something like this: He was about 12 and was in Houston on vacation with his family visiting relatives. They went to a game in the Astrodome when the Giants were playing the Astros. This was in the mid to late 1960s. During the game, Mays hit a HR and when he returned to the dugout, he "flipped" the bat on the roof where this person (and two other kids) were positioned. This person grabbed the bat and ran back to his seat. Long story short, he held onto the bat for almost 40 years, basically putting it in a closet and forgetting about it. One day, he saw the bat and decided it probably was worth something -- that's what led to the phone call I received. When I saw the bat, it was a perfect specimen -- S2 model from '65-'68, ideal Mays pine-tar pattern, good use, no crack, 24 on knob, etc. It had everything. In talking to the owner, it was obvious that he was not a collector, nor even a baseball fan (my friend, his co-worker, confirms this). He was just a guy who grabbed a bat as a kid and now was looking to make a buck on it. If the guy was a fan or collector, I probably would have harbored some suspicion regarding his story. But, because he seemed to care practically nothing about the sport or the bat, I accepted his story as being more legit.

Now, I'm not sure I'm buying everything he says. Was it really a HR bat? Did Willie actually flip it up on the dugout after running the bases (wouldn't the bat boy have taken it back to the dugout)? Why would Mays discard an uncracked bat that he just hit a HR with? There's no way to know. What I do know is that the bat is an ideal Mays bat that matches the era... and the seller wasn't capable of faking that/making that up.

The thing that's always intrigued me most is the fact that Mays hit his 500th HR in the Astrodome. I've done some research, but keep hitting dead ends regarding the bat he used for the milestone. Photos I've seen suggest it was a Louisville Slugger, not an Adirondack. The BBHOF in Cooperstown doesn't have his 500th HR bat. I've often wondered if this could be the bat -- if Mays was so happy that he gave his bat to a kid. Honestly, after meeting the bat's former owner, I think it's possible he could have seen history and it didn't even sink in. I'll probably never know.

There's an old saying that goes, "You just can't make this stuff up." Well, that's how I felt about the Mays bat and the owner's story... and it's a big reason I bought the bat.

[ChrisCavalier]

Re: What does it take for you to believe a story?

I'd be curious to learn what the reaction by the folks at Steiner is to this specific jersey? I think Bob Maldenado (?) from Steiner is a Universe reader/member-can he possibly post his thoughts on this? If indeed Steiner has an EXCLUSIVE agreement, how did this particular shirt enter the hobby without their hologram and paperwork?

Hello Howard,

I spoke to my contact at Steiner about your question. He told me the Steiner agreement with teams such as the Red Sox is, in fact, an exclusive one. He also said they had not experienced any player in any of their deals remove his jersey from either the dugout or clubhouse against team regulations. He said Steiner did also speak with the Red Sox about this particular jersey and the Red Sox admitted that it may have been possible that David Ortiz removed his jersey and gave it to someone after the the ALCS. However, if that was the case, the Red Sox said is would have been an isolated incident and they are confident that it had not happened at any other time during the season.

I hope that helps.

Sincerely,
Chris